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The PodcastEPISODE #92
A Dog's Purpose, A Couple's Mission: Cathryn Michon & W. Bruce Cameron of Surprise Hit Films, Los Angeles, Part 1 Hit movies, TV series and bestselling novels: meet Hollywood creative power couple, Cathryn Michon and W. Bruce Cameron. They’re best known as screenwriters for the Dog’s Purpose film franchise. The first film, A Dog’s Purpose, starring Josh Gad, Dennis Quaid and Peggy Lipton, broke $200 million at the box office on a reported budget of $22 million. Cathryn is a writer/actor/director, known for her independent comedy films, Muffin Top and Cook Off, and the Grrrl Genius books. Bruce’s bestseller, 8 Simple Rules For Dating My Teenage Daughter, became an ABC sitcom. At this writing, Bruce is touring to promote the third in the Dog’s Purpose novel series, A Dog’s Promise. All these separate projects. Isn’t this supposed to be about couples working together? Yes it is. And these two are dynamic business and creative partners. Everything that goes out the door, they've both worked on it. She edits his books. He works on her movies. They’re funny, and share a potent creative and business dynamic. They also have a useful decision making structure that every CoupleCo should consider. And, that they’re both dog people is important. Without dogs, and without Bruce spontaneously telling Cathryn a story that eventually became a New York Times bestseller, we might not be here today. (And a lot of Hollywood dogs would be out of work.) CLICK HERE FOR A COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF PLACES TO HEAR THIS SHOW FOR ITUNES, CLICK HERE FOR GOOGLE PODCASTS, CLICK HERE DOWNLOAD THE MP3 BY RIGHT-CLICKING HERE AND SELECTING "SAVE AS" |
THE TRANSCRIPT
Interview with Cathryn Michon & W. Bruce Cameron of Surprise Hit Films, Los Angeles, Part 1
Honey
Parker: 00:00 We're navigating the
nation in search of standout couples in business together.
Blaine
Parker: 00:04 Let's start over.
You were a little hot.
Honey
Parker: 00:06 Okay.
Blaine
Parker: 00:07 It doesn't usually
happen.
Honey
Parker: 00:08 I'm not usually a
little hot?
Blaine
Parker: 00:10 No. I mean, on the
mic.
Honey
Parker: 00:12 Oh, okay.
Blaine
Parker: 00:12 You're hot all the
time.
Honey
Parker: 00:13 Oh, thank you for
saving that.
Blaine
Parker: 00:16 Welcome to CoupleCo:
Working With Your Spouse For Fun and Profit. I'm Blaine Parker.
Honey
Parker: 00:20 Which makes me Honey
Parker.
Blaine
Parker: 00:22 And as a couple in
business together, we are coming to you from The Couple Coach, or compact
trans-American land yacht.
Honey
Parker: 00:26 We are navigating
the nation in search of standout couples in business together.
Blaine
Parker: 00:30 And we're bringing
them to you, so you can hear their inspiring stories of crushing it in business
without crushing each other.
Honey
Parker: 00:36 And one of our
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Parker: 00:41 Smokin' Mary, Smoked
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Honey
Parker: 01:06 I
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Blaine
Parker: 01:09 Smokin' Mary, Smoked
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Honey
Parker: 01:16 And, for more about CouplecCo, we, Mr. Parker and I, are online at
coupleco.com.
Blaine
Parker: 01:22 Spelled like it
sounds, coupleco.com.
Honey
Parker: 01:25 This-
Blaine
Parker: 01:25 Now, hold on. I want
to clear something up here because you've done this again. You called me Mr.
Parker.
Honey
Parker: 01:30 I
like calling you Mr. Parker.
Blaine
Parker: 01:32 Well, I want people
to know that that is something of your own volition. I have not told you, you
must call me Mr. Parker.
Honey
Parker: 01:38 No, you have not.
For anybody wondering, he has not told me to do that.
Blaine
Parker: 01:42 No, it's not some
weird slave-master relationship.
Honey
Parker: 01:44 I
just think it makes him sound important.
Blaine
Parker: 01:47 Because I'm not.
Honey
Parker: 01:49 You should at least
sound important. So, this is episode 92, which means we're knocking on the door
of episode 100. And, we are in Los Angeles, where we're talking Tinseltown.
Blaine
Parker: 02:01 Oh yeah. We are
taking you through the gates into the land not only of hit movie making, but of
TV series, and even best selling novels.
Honey
Parker: 02:10 This is a genuine
Hollywood creative power couple.
Blaine
Parker: 02:12 Oh yeah. Cathryn Michon and W. Bruce Cameron have dozens of credits to their
names, both separately and together.
Honey
Parker: 02:19 They're probably
best known for collaborating on the screenplays for the "Dog's
Purpose" film franchise.
Blaine
Parker: 02:24 The first
installment, "A Dog's Purpose", starring Josh Gad, Dennis Quaid, and
Peggy Lipton, had a purported budget of $22 million.
Honey
Parker: 02:32 It also broke the
$200 million barrier at the Box Office.
Blaine
Parker: 02:36 And that is huge.
Cathryn is also known as an actor and director for her independent comedy films
"Muffin Top" and "Cook Off!", and for her best selling "Girl Genius" books.
Honey
Parker: 02:47 You'd know Bruce for
an ABC sitcom based on his best-selling book, "8 Simple Rules for Dating
My Teenage Daughter."
Blaine
Parker: 02:53 And, as we are
releasing this show, Bruce is on a national book tour to promote the third novel
in the Dog's Purpose series, "A Dog's Promise."
Honey
Parker: 03:02 So, all of these
separate projects, what's the point? Is this a CoupleCo working together?
Blaine
Parker: 03:08 Yep. And, while you
might see just one name on the book or the screenplay, they both had a hand in
it.
Honey
Parker: 03:14 Yeah. Nothing goes
out the door that they haven't both touched. She edits his books, he works on
her movies. They are funny separately, funny together, and share a potent
creative and business dynamic.
Blaine
Parker: 03:26 They also have an
interesting and useful decision-making structure that every CoupleCo ought to
consider. And, that they're both dog people is actually important. Without
dogs, and without Bruce spontaneously telling Cathryn a story that eventually
became a New York Times Best Seller, we might not be here today.
Honey
Parker: 03:45 And a lot of dogs
would be out of work.
Blaine
Parker: 03:47 There's a lot of
working dogs in Hollywood because of these two. Now, you might here some dogs
in this recording along with people in the background and even some small
planes. We recorded this in their Marina del Ray home with the sliding doors
open to the beach. And, you will hear all kinds of authentic SoCal ambience. So
here now, part one of Cathryn Michon and W. Bruce
Cameron of Surprise Hit Films, recorded in Marina del Rey, California.
This is a thrill. We are in Marina del Rey. We
have been allowed inside the home of W. Bruce Cameron and Cathryn Michon, who are the creators of among other things, and
there [crosstalk 00:04:27] is a lot to talk about.
Honey
Parker: 04:29 Among many other
things. Many, many, many other things.
Blaine
Parker: 04:30 The "Dog's
Purpose" franchise, the films, the books, the kids' books, the thing is a
juggernaut. It's amazing. We've been watching the movies...
Cathryn: 04:37 It's really... We
like to think of it as a Bruciverse, really.
Honey
Parker: 04:37 A Bruciverse?
Blaine
Parker: 04:43 Their company is
Surprise Hit films, and wow, thanks for doing this.
Cathryn: 04:48 Well it's fun. Thank
you.
Honey
Parker: 04:49 Thank you for having
us.
Bruce: 04:51 I
was going to be sitting in my living room anyway, so...
Blaine
Parker: 04:55 Right on. [crosstalk
00:04:56]
Cathryn: 04:56 Impossibly
convenient.
Honey
Parker: 04:56 The strange thing is
I was going to be sitting in your living room, [crosstalk 00:04:59] it just all
kind of worked out.
Bruce: 05:01 But the opportunity
to talk about myself, that's... I love to do that all day long. You can come
back tomorrow.
Blaine
Parker: 05:07 There's something
that I like to call the single most important question in this interview. And,
without this answer we would not have anything that follows. The great thing
about the answer to this question is it is, uniquely a show business answer.
How did you two meet?
Cathryn: 05:24 Well, we have the
requisite cute meet you would hope from people who make lighthearted family
films. We were both on book tour. I was on book tour for a book I wrote called
"The Girl Genius Guide to Life" which is sort of a proto-feminist
funny memoir and-
Blaine
Parker: 05:43 And it is funny, I
might add.
Cathryn: 05:45 Oh. Thank you.
Blaine
Parker: 05:46 Yes.
Cathryn: 05:46 I'm proud of that
book. And, Bruce was on tour for "8 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage
Daughter." And, we were both booked on a PBS talk show in Seattle, and it
was kind of running behind schedule. When you do a book tour you-
Bruce: 06:03 Kind of? It was
three hours behind schedule.[crosstalk 00:06:06]
Cathryn: 06:05 They were three hours,
yeah. And, basically they had escorted us separately up into a green room. They
didn't lock us in but it felt...
Honey
Parker: 06:16 Prisony?
Bruce: 06:16 It was... It had a
real Twilight Zone feel to it because the filming was being done on the first
floor. That was all lit up. Bright lights. And then, the building itself was
completely dark, except for 10 stories up there was this one little light bulb,
and that was the room we were in[crosstalk 00:06:29]
Cathryn: 06:28 In a room with a
bare bulb but... And kind of... Not like a regular talk show green room where
there'd be... Say, some craft service.
Blaine
Parker: 06:38 No craft service?
Cathryn: 06:39 No. There was
[inaudible 00:06:40] one cream cheese, and crusted half bagel left on a tray.
Bruce: 06:47 Yes. And we fought
over that. She bit me. No. And you'd open the door and you'd look down the
hallway, it was completely dark. You're just like, "I don't... I'm afraid
to leave." But I was at this point just... I had... Catherine had been on
sitcoms and I'd been doing stuff for years. This was my first foray out into
the public. My parents kept me locked up [crosstalk 00:07:10]
Honey
Parker: 07:09 He finally took the
lid off the box.
Cathryn: 07:13 He was a bubble boy.
Let's just tell them. He was a bubble boy.
Bruce: 07:15 And so, I was too
meek to ask for anything other than this completely shingled bagel. And then,
Cathryn bursts in the room and they say, "Well, your segment's three hours
behind." And she says, "Three hours?" And she says, "Well,
you'll have to feed us." She says, "I'll have chicken in rice. Would that
be okay with you?" And she's asking me. And I said, "Oh, that sounds
great compared to this bagel."
Blaine
Parker: 07:37 Well, now we know
who takes [crosstalk 00:07:39]
Bruce: 07:39 And so, she kind of
goes like, "Hop! Hop! Get us food." Then these people were... they
scurry out of there. [inaudible 00:07:44] frantic like, "Go get
her..." And about a half hour later, a full UNICEF shipment of rice with
about 37 chicken breasts rolls in the door, it been a full salad bar. It was
like somebody had brought over the Sizzler, and set it up in this room. So, we
had an opportunity to sit-
Cathryn: 08:03 So, we had three
hours and I got locked in a room, not locked again. But I don't want to have
any lawsuits come out of this. I wasn't locked in the room. But we were in a
room together for three hours, sort of on a forced dinner date. And, I always
say God loves me so much. I had previously had bad taste in men. I was divorced
and I said, God loves me so much. He locked me in a room for three hours with a
nice man. Until I finally was like, "Oh, huh, nice. That's a choice."
Honey
Parker: 08:34 Do you remember what
you talked about?
Bruce: 08:36 Mostly how much rice
there was. I remember that being a real topic [crosstalk 00:08:41]
Cathryn: 08:41 No, just all kinds
of things. Certainly our books and other things. And, I do remember though that
at first he did not really understand that I was another guest on the show. He
thought I worked on the show. He thought I was like an assistant.
Honey
Parker: 08:51 Craft Service.
Bruce: 08:53 There, yeah.
Cathryn: 08:53 Not doing a good
job. And at some point he said, "So, how long have you worked on the show?
How do you like it?" or whatever. And I said, "Oh I'm a guest on the
show. And I wrote this nationally and best selling
book." And he's like, "Oh my God." He said, "Well, I guess
then I should stop patronizing you." And honestly, I've spent my whole
career in Hollywood being patronized pretty much every day, and no one's ever
copped to it. And I was like, "Wow that's the most attractive thing
anyone's ever said to me." Is to acknowledge that they weren't there just
like, "Oh, I thought you were just a dumb blonde." which everyone
thinks.
Blaine
Parker: 09:29 But I go to imagine
at the core, we had here, Michigan meets Minnesota? is that-
Cathryn: 09:34 Yeah, we're both
dorks from the Midwest. That's fair enough.
Blaine
Parker: 09:38 So, despite whatever
the veneer was, that Hollywood had applied and Bruce you were a columnist at
that point promoting your book.[crosstalk 00:09:44]
Cathryn: 09:44 Yeah, in Colorado.
Blaine
Parker: 09:44 Yeah. And right on
rocky mountains.
Cathryn: 09:48 But you're from the
Midwest? I'm from the Midwest. We're dorks, from the Midwest. We're not cool.
Bruce: 09:52 Okay.
Blaine
Parker: 09:52 So this is how you
meet?
Cathryn: 09:55 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 09:56 Did one of you say
we should continue this after we get released from the[crosstalk 00:09:59]
Cathryn: 09:59 Well, no. The fate
really did that. He was living in Colorado and then his book, "8 Simple
Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter" became a pilot with John Ritter, and
then became a hit series and won the people's choice award and all that stuff.
So, he moved to LA because he had... He did the thing that no one ever does, which
is to is have their first television project, not only go to pilot, but then go
to series, and then become a big hit.
Blaine
Parker: 10:27 For people who don't
know Hollywood, that's huge.
Cathryn: 10:31 It's so huge. I'm
not even considered a giant failure in this town. I've sold nine network pilots
and none of them have gotten a series. And, that's kind of average.
Blaine
Parker: 10:41 Well your... By the
way your sitcom writing pedigree is phenomenal.
Cathryn: 10:45 Well, I've been
lucky to work on some great shows, and then we've gotten to make movies and all
that stuff. So like I said, I'm not considered a failure, but you would think
at nine busted pilots I'd be the loser of Hollywood. But I don't even-
Blaine
Parker: 10:58 No. That is failing
your way to success. That's phenomenal.
Cathryn: 11:02 Harvey Weinstein
would be the loser of Hollywood, but he eclipses me in that.
Blaine
Parker: 11:10 I
know there's somewhere in here... And I'm not sure I'm clear on the chronology,
but there is a story about a dog that plays a pivotal role in this
relationship.
Bruce: 11:19 That sounds like
it's my cue...
Blaine
Parker: 11:22 Had you guys been
dating when this happened? Or-
Cathryn: 11:25 We were dating by
the time this[crosstalk 00:11:26] what you're talking about happened.
Bruce: 11:26 It was a rocky start
because Cathryn... She saw me as this guy... I described where I was living,
which was in a condo in a small town called Dillon, Colorado.
Cathryn: 11:37 I
know it.
Bruce: 11:38 Which she then
translated in her mind to meaning that I lived like Jed Clampett
before he hit the oil. I was living in a cabin-
Cathryn: 11:45 I
thought it was more like the Unabomber. I thought it seemed like [inaudible
00:11:47]
Bruce: 11:48 And she had me
pegged as a Unabomber type and...
Blaine
Parker: 11:49 You got a hoodie?
Bruce: 11:50 She told me I had to
move to Los Angeles to work on the show. And I hadn't thought I was going to be
able to commute from Dillon[crosstalk 00:11:58]
Blaine
Parker: 11:50 From Dillon?
Bruce: 11:58 Kind of, yeah. Like
I do everything in my life. And so, what I heard from her is that it absolutely
won't work. And so I took a look at it and said, "You should know she's
right. I've got to move to LA." And then I wrote her and said, "Good
news, I'm moving to LA." And she's like, "Oh good." And I wrote,
"And, you're the only friend I have in LA." And, long silence and she
says "Okay." And I wrote, "So maybe we can get together or
something could you help me?" And she's like, "Ah. This guy is coming
from..." She said, "You're the man from Bugger Hall... is coming
to..."
Blaine
Parker: 12:31 It was a rocky
start, wasn't it?
Bruce: 12:32 Yeah. I said,
"Well, when I get there-"
Cathryn: 12:35 Highly exaggerated
in your telling but okay.
Bruce: 12:36 And I said,
"When I get there I'd like to call you occasionally." She wrote
"Knock yourself out." Which I thought it's okay.
Cathryn: 12:41 That I did say. I
did say that.
Bruce: 12:42 I'm really starting
well behind on this thing.
Cathryn: 12:46 Yeah. But fast
forward to we are dating at this point.
Bruce: 12:50 Yeah, at this point,
right. Where I'm telling [crosstalk 00:12:53]
Cathryn: 12:53 And, I had told
him... because I never had a dog as a child, I'd only had one as an adult. And,
her name was Ellie and she died unexpectedly and young of stomach torsion
disease.
Bruce: 13:05 Oh, yeah. That
happened.
Cathryn: 13:06 And, it's really
sad.
Bruce: 13:07 Yeah it is.
Cathryn: 13:09 And, I said I could
never have a dog again. I will never have a dog again. It was too hard and...
Bruce: 13:14 But she tells me
this whilst I'm trapped in an automobile with her going-
Cathryn: 13:19 We're always trapped
somewhere, aren't we?
Bruce: 13:20 Yeah. No rice this
time. And we were driving up to the coast. We were going to go visit her
parents.
Cathryn: 13:26 Well, meet my
parents.
Bruce: 13:27 Go meet her parents.
Yeah. And, I had started getting kind of serious about her at this point
because I hadn't yet met parents.
Blaine
Parker: 13:36 And did you notice?
Cathryn: 13:36 I
did notice. Again, he hadn't met my family [crosstalk 00:13:38]so that would
have been an escape cause but...
Bruce: 13:41 So, she tells me
this, I'm halfway up the coast. I'm like, "Well, what am I supposed to do
now?" Let her out? Because that's a deal breaker for me. I have to have a
dog. So, I decided to tell her story to try to convince her that her dog, if she
really looked hard enough, her dog was there for her. Her dog might even come
back to her. So, I told her this story, and I walked her in a basically... As
I'm telling this story, it's sort of unfolding in my mind, I'm watching it, and
I'm-
Cathryn: 14:08 Bruce is a story
teller. He'll tell you a story. This was a little bit unusual as I now know.
Further into our relationship, this story kind of... As you've said, sort of
dropped into your head fully formed.
Bruce: 14:22 Yeah. It was as if
someone put a DVD in my head, and I watched the whole thing and I'm just
describing each scene as I'm seeing them. And at the end she says, "Well, you
have to write that as a book."
Honey
Parker: 14:33 So you had never
thought about this story before the moment?[crosstalk 00:14:36]
Bruce: 14:35 No, no. I was just
making it up.
Honey
Parker: 14:36 That's...
Bruce: 14:37 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 14:38 Wow.
Cathryn: 14:38 But we're driving up
the 101. And it took you... I don't know, an hour and a half to tell the story.
And at the end, I was in tears as any sentient human being is at the end of a
dog's purpose. And I did say, "I think that you need to write that as a
book." And then, this is pre-iPhones, but he always had a little recording
stick in his bag. And I said, "I think you should record that."
Because it was so perfect. And so, he told it again and recorded it. And it is
very much a dog's purpose. Ethan, and the police dog, and everything, and all
of it was...
Honey
Parker: 15:19 I
love the police dog.
Cathryn: 15:20 I
know. And then that dog is named Ellie after my dog. It's-
Blaine
Parker: 15:25 Well, that's right.
I read that somewhere.
Cathryn: 15:27 Yeah. So... Well
actually that was something that happened later. I said, "Well..."
When the book was becoming fully formed, it was so amazing. And I said, "I
just think this is going to be a classic book." And then the names of the
characters, Ethan, and Maya, and Jacob. Those are my niece and my two nephews.
We did a lot of stuff like that because we thought it was such a special book.
Blaine
Parker: 15:54 So you're trapped in
the car, this story falls out of your mouth as if fully formed in the head of
Zeus.
Bruce: 16:02 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 16:02 Did this solve
everything? All of a sudden, bam, that
you were now solidified. Was this...
Bruce: 16:09 Mean as a couple?
Blaine
Parker: 16:10 Yeah.
Bruce: 16:11 No, [crosstalk
00:16:14] I don't think that closed the deal.
Cathryn: 16:15 No. Well, you like
to say [crosstalk 00:16:16]
Bruce: 16:16 I
think surviving the weekend with your parents was actually much [crosstalk
00:16:18] that was the hard part.
Cathryn: 16:21 You like to say I
liked the story so much, I married you. I was going to marry you anyway, but...
Blaine
Parker: 16:26 Okay,
congratulations on surviving the parents and getting the story. I guess this is
where we fast forward to how the heck did you decide to start working together
because especially in this business, people often want to make sure that
doesn't happen.
Bruce: 16:40 We kind of stumbled
into that because, for one thing I was this boy from Booger Hollow that had
loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly, and I was charged with writing a
movie. The company at the time was Disney, and they commissioned me to write...
Not to write the pilot but to write a feature script of "8 Simple Rules
for Dating My Teenage Daughter." And...
Blaine
Parker: 17:02 Your best selling first book?[crosstalk 00:17:04]
Bruce: 17:03 Yeah.
Cathryn: 17:04 It was something
that was popular at the time, the idea that you double develop and that
something would be a movie sort of simultaneously it'd be on a TV show, which
people are still doing Downton Abbey. But...
Bruce: 17:14 So, I had a
commission to write a screenplay. I had no idea how to write a screenplay.
Cathryn on the other hand, had sold an idea for a novel to a publisher, and she
had never written a novel. And so, it seemed really obvious to me [crosstalk
00:17:27]
Blaine
Parker: 17:27 You're a Yin-Yang
here.
Bruce: 17:28 Yeah. I'll help you,
you help me kind of thing. So, that was really...
Cathryn: 17:33 Not as
co-screenwriters, because we...
Bruce: 17:35 No.
Cathryn: 17:36 ... Each took our
own credit on each of those projects. But definitely that point he had written
10 novels, I had written many screenplays. And it's also... I think really... I
don't know for other couples, I think if you come to your expertise separately,
and have your own identity in whatever enterprise you're in, I think it's
probably easier to collaborate, than if you are trying to figure it out
together as a couple. I think that would be very difficult. I would not ever
have wanted to do that.
Honey
Parker: 18:05 The very first
couple we interviewed, Jim and Robin Whitney, they have an ad agency. They said
exactly that. They both had very strong careers before they got together. So,
it's not like, "Oh, I'll bring you along or I'll teach you, and I bet
you'll be great."
Cathryn: 18:22 Which is also how
other people would regard you if that's how your partnership came together.
It's like, "Oh well, he is the talent and she is the blonde."
[crosstalk 00:18:30]
Bruce: 18:30 Right. She's
[crosstalk 00:18:30]
Honey
Parker: 18:31 Well, we have a
friend, she co-wrote an Oscar-winning film with her then husband. And when the
marriage split,[crosstalk 00:18:41] which was the night they were winning the
Oscar...
Cathryn: 18:42 Oh, jeez.
Blaine
Parker: 18:44 They were at the
shrine accepting their Oscars, and the ink on the divorce papers were still wet
from that afternoon.
Honey
Parker: 18:51 And, when that
happened everybody assumed, because this was a while ago, that, "Oh, he
clearly carried her."
Cathryn: 18:51 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 18:59 And, he was the
one. And subsequently, she's had a
career.
Blaine
Parker: 19:04 It was tough for
her. And, what's interesting is he's evaporated. Nobody even knows where he is.
Honey
Parker: 19:10 But it's unfortunate
that there's still that thing. And as you have gotten into directing, I'm sure
more so.
Cathryn: 19:18 Yeah. Well, being a
woman film director in Hollywood is its own special kind of torture. Only
because the statistics are quite clear. Only 4% of feature films are directed
by women. So, it's very unusual for every department that you are leading, for
them to be bossed around by a woman.
Blaine
Parker: 19:42 Wait, are you saying
that women make up more than 4% of the population?
Cathryn: 19:45 They do. It's
amazing.
Blaine
Parker: 19:46 All Right, I'm going
to have to count because I don't believe it.
Honey
Parker: 19:48 I'm always so
excited when we get the day of the woman.
Cathryn: 19:52 Yeah, the day. We
get that one day.[crosstalk 00:19:55] Like every five years we get a day or
something-
Honey
Parker: 19:57 I
love the day.
Cathryn: 19:57 It's amazing.
Honey
Parker: 19:57 I
love the day.
Blaine
Parker: 19:57 This might be a
good... because you used the C word, collaboration. And, forgive me if... Is it
okay if I read the last paragraph of your acknowledgements here Bruce?
Bruce: 20:06 Oh, sure.
Cathryn: 20:06 Oh, yeah. That's
pretty sexy.
Blaine
Parker: 20:09 I
can see how you might say that. Well, I'm not going to say how I felt about
Bruce after reading this.[inaudible 00:20:16] This is in the acknowledgements
of the new book "A Dog's Promise" which by the time this hits the
air, will be released. It's coming up the middle of October.
"Finally, like the grand finale of any
self-respecting fireworks show, I present to you, my wife Cathryn Michon. She is my co-screenwriter, my life partner and the
person to whom I hand every draft of my novel for her sharp editorial eye. She
designed and has been running our marketing efforts for years. And, she's that
person I can turn to when I'm feeling lost, full of self
doubt, and blocked, or even when I'm effusively happy and creatively
energetic. She's also a female director in Hollywood, something most executives
consider very inconvenient to their narrative, which claims people only want to
go to movies directed by men. As of this writing, A Dog's Dream, directed by
Gail Mancuso is not yet in theaters, so we don't know if audiences will want to
watch the movie, or if they will say, "Directed by a woman? No way I want
to see that." Thank you Cathryn. You are a gift to me from God."
Wow.
Cathryn: 21:13 That's good.
Blaine
Parker: 21:14 And I'm wondering if
I should've had you read it. That was... I'm feeling a little inappropriate.
Cathryn: 21:18 No, it's sweet.
[crosstalk 00:21:20]It's lovely. And by the way, the movie did very well.
Blaine
Parker: 21:18 Yes it did.
Cathryn: 21:24 And, it's crushing
it on home video and...
Blaine
Parker: 21:26 Gail Mancuso did a
fantastic job despite...
Bruce: 21:30 Being a woman.
Blaine
Parker: 21:31 Not being a man,
yeah.
Bruce: 21:31 Yeah.
Cathryn: 21:32 Honestly, it is my
favorite of the three studio films we've made, and she's a marvelous director.
It was actually... She's won two Emmy's, and this was her first feature film in
Hollywood, which is ridiculously, and horribly overdue. But she was amazing,
and more than any other director that we've ever had, she personally is a dog
person. And, I think it really just shows. She really loves dogs, and gets
dogs, and... It's funny, I was watching the movie on the plane the other day
and there's so many little moments in "A Dog's Journey" which... A
lot of people were confused.
A Dog's Journey is the sequel to A Dog's
Purpose, and then A Dog's Promise is the third book in the series. But, I was
watching it on the plane without sound and they're just... She captured so many
moments where the dogs are just doing what dogs do. Something so simple like
head to tail sniffing each other. I just saw this one shot and I'm like,
"Oh, we've never..." Every dog that ever greets any other dog does
that. They do that and they circle and your leashes get tangled [inaudible
00:22:41]. That little behavior that everyone recognizes has never been in any
of our movies, but because Gail is such a dog person, and there it is. And that
just makes and I think it just makes it a beautiful movie.
Bruce: 22:51 The reason we call
our company "Surprise Hit Films" is because in the trades, whenever a
woman directs a movie and it's a hit, they say, "This was a surprise
hit." It's just like, "Without failure."
Cathryn: 23:03 And it's really...
Elizabeth Banks has had some surprises hits.
Bruce: 23:06 Yes. We saw that
coming.
Cathryn: 23:09 It's always like
that.
Blaine
Parker: 23:11 So going back to the
collaboration here, it sounds like based on the conversation we had earlier,
the two of you are heavily involved in everything the other one writes.
Honey
Parker: 23:21 Does anything go out
of this place that you haven't both touched?
Cathryn: 23:24 No.
Bruce: 23:25 But we don't share
credit on everything?
Cathryn: 23:27 Yeah.
Bruce: 23:29 And we have one rule
that has saved us from real problems, which is... As you know when you have a
partnership, and the partners completely vehemently disagree about something,
your only recourse is to dissolve the partnership, because you can't outvote.
We turned that formula upside down and we said okay, when we sit down or do a
project whatever it is, we will decide who the owner is. Whose project is it?
That person has veto power.
So in the end, creative difference, we've been
talking about a scene for two days, she disagrees with me, I disagree with her,
but it's her project. In the end I say, "Okay." And I just have to
accept the verdict. She's the judge. No appeal. She says, "We're going to
go with it the way I wrote it." And I'm like, "Okay."
Honey
Parker: 24:12 How hard is that?
Cathryn: 24:13 It's not hard
because...
Bruce: 24:14 No.
Cathryn: 24:15 Generally in our
careers as filmmakers, especially if it's from his book, obviously it's his
project. We've done two films that were from books that I did and those were my
projects. It's pretty easy to see who should be the final deciding vote.
Bruce: 24:31 Yeah. I don't know
how other people do it. If they flip a coin or whatever because you are going
to have these really vehement arguments, about maybe even something really
simple like, "He shouldn't be able to drive or whatever it is."
Whenever you do come up with something and then you just can't get past it, and
eventually you have to or you're stuck.
Honey
Parker: 24:49 We came up with
something called plan C, because Blaine and I've been writing together for a
long time. And it was if he was very much in camp A, and I was very much in
camp B, we would look for camp C.
Bruce: 25:01 And, since we've
started an advertising agency 10 years ago, that has saved our butts
repeatedly. It's been great. And here's the thing, as I'm listening to your
dynamic here thinking, well, why didn't we think of that?[crosstalk 00:25:14]
Cathryn: 25:16 Well, actually...
And I kind of had the same thought when you just mentioned what you said. I
think that sometimes when people get into armed camps on a creative issue,
maybe the choice that no one's thought of is going to be the better thing. And
so, that sound like a really good idea.
Honey
Parker: 25:33 Yeah. It's
interesting it's worked out because we never see plan C for a long time, but
once we do, we're like, "Oh..." And we both love it.
Blaine
Parker: 25:40 Well, one of the
things that's really interesting about people who don't work in a creative
business, and you may experienced this, is they come
up with one creative idea and they go, "Ah, this is it. I will never have
another creative idea."
Honey
Parker: 25:53 And so, they can't
let go.
Cathryn: 25:54 Well, we crush those
people's spirits. The way we do it. I love to tell the story of W. Bruce
Cameron, which is that he wanted to be a writer. He was in high school, he sold
a short story to the Kansas City Star. It's like, "I'm amazing. Where's my
Pulitzer, blah, blah, blah." And then life interfered, and he married his
high school sweetheart, and had kids and so he had a day job working for
general motors, but he got up every day at four in the morning and wrote.
And, he wrote nine unpublished novels. Wrote
nine novels. Didn't really understand how publishing worked in terms of... He
would just send it off to some publishers, and they would send it back and say,
"No thanks." And that's not really how publishing works. But he never
stopped doing it. And, "8 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter"
was his 10th book. The first to be published, and it debuted on the New York
Times best seller list. And so, people are like, "Oh, overnight
success." I'm like, "Really? Where's your nine Novels? Did you write
nine novels?"
Blaine
Parker: 26:53 What overnight
success was not years in the making.
Cathryn: 26:56 Yep.
Blaine
Parker: 26:56 Nobody ever sees
that.
Cathryn: 26:58 But that one does
crush people's spirits, because a lot of people be like, "I wrote a
book." I'm like, "Good for you. Write eight more."
Honey
Parker: 27:04 And in this town
it's so often that somebody will say, "I've got a great idea. I just need
someone to write it."
Cathryn: 27:11 Yeah. I love
that.[crosstalk 00:27:12]
Honey
Parker: 27:11 Well thank you, so
much.
Bruce: 27:13 Yeah. So mad
[inaudible 00:27:15] every time I hear that I get borderline violent.
Cathryn: 27:18 Yeah, I know. Every
writer does. Well, I'm sure... I don't know what the language restrictions are
in your podcast but-
Blaine
Parker: 27:25 None.
Cathryn: 27:26 Then you've probably
read the essay, "No, I Will Not Read Your Fucking Screenplay." which
is [crosstalk 00:27:31]the greatest because it's...
Bruce: 27:35 I'd forgotten all
about it.
Cathryn: 27:37 It's the greatest.
You can google it and it's everything about-
Bruce: 27:40 It been years, but
that was epic.
Cathryn: 27:42 Oh, every writer in
this town has passed that thing. And it's true. It's like yeah, go, you deal
with your own.
Blaine
Parker: 27:49 Yeah. This is a
sidebar. It really has very little to do with the two of you writing together.
But The Repo Madness, Ruddy McCann books, are those recent creation? Or is that
something that comes from your previous...
Bruce: 28:01 The seeds of it were
planted when I started repossessing cars in Northern Michigan.
Blaine
Parker: 28:04 You were a repo man?
Bruce: 28:05 Yeah.
Cathryn: 28:06 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 28:06 This is great.
Bruce: 28:07 So, after a while I
started thinking, a repo man is in part a private detective. He's a skip
tracer. He's looking for people. He's looking for their cars but he's looking
for people, and I thought this would... Someday I want to write a mystery.
Cathryn: 28:19 Well, and you would
tell me these stories. He... there's a million, they're great. And, certainly
in both of those books-
Blaine
Parker: 28:28 And they have a dog.
Cathryn: 28:28 Yeah. But in both of
those books, there are stories that are within the novels that are things that
actually happened to you. And I was like, "You got to use those stories,
they're so good."[crosstalk 00:28:43]
Blaine
Parker: 28:43 Wow. Are there more
books coming I assume?
Bruce: 28:43 Well, it's funny I
get asked that by... Every book signing I do, there's always somebody who lurks
and I can... After a while I can figure out who they're going... I'm going to
say, it's going to be that lady right there. Holds up her hand, she says
"Okay, the dog books are fine, but when are you going to write another
book about Ruddy McCann?" And I get this constantly.
Cathryn: 29:02 You will. He's just
super busy with-
Bruce: 29:06 Yeah, I've got a few
things going on but it's one of my favorite things to do. So, I might just do
it just for fun.
Blaine
Parker: 29:12 Okay, for the
uninitiated Ruddy McCann is kind of the blue collar Travis McGee of the
Michigan Upper Peninsula.
Cathryn: 29:19 That's very fair.
Blaine
Parker: 29:20 So there you go.
Bruce: 29:21 Yeah
Cathryn: 29:22 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 29:22 What more do you
need to know?
Cathryn: 29:23 [crosstalk
00:29:23]Well he's a great character.
Blaine
Parker: 29:25 [crosstalk 00:29:25]
and has adventures.
Cathryn: 29:26 It is actually one
of his most... I want to say lauded, because you got nominated for the Kirkus Prize for that book. And, it's really good literary,
mystery writing, and it has a very quirky supernatural hook to it. Just to
pitch it out shortly, this guy is like a repo man and all of a sudden one day
there's a voice inside of his head that speaks to him, and the voice says,
"I was murdered, and you have to solve my murder." And, it kind of happens... Ruddy's in his early 30s and if you're going to become
schizophrenic, oftentimes that's when that break might happen. So, Ruddy is
unsure if in fact there's a dead guy living in his head, that's an option A, or
option B, I'm becoming schizophrenic.
Blaine
Parker: 30:16 He's getting repo
madness.
Honey
Parker: 30:16 Right.
Cathryn: 30:16 He's getting repo
madness.
Blaine
Parker: 30:18 Yes.
Honey
Parker: 30:18 Wow.
Cathryn: 30:20 It's a good book
though. And the characters are great.
Blaine
Parker: 30:23 This might actually
be a good place to use the 'R' word because, and I hope you don't take offense
with this, the two of you together seem to be relentless.
Cathryn: 30:33 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 30:33 You are relentless.
Bruce: 30:34 I
thought you were going to say ridiculous.
Blaine
Parker: 30:36 We're saving that
for later.
Bruce: 30:38 Okay.
Cathryn: 30:38 Really sexy.
Blaine
Parker: 30:40 Yes. That is often
used [crosstalk 00:30:41]
Honey
Parker: 30:41 That's where he
usually go.
Blaine
Parker: 30:43 Relentless
creatives, relentless promoters, relentless in everything. It just... It's
great. Do you stop?
Honey
Parker: 30:53 Yeah. I was going to
say, what's your typically day like?
Bruce: 30:56 Well...
Honey
Parker: 30:56 Typically[crosstalk
00:30:58]
Cathryn: 30:58 We're generally
seven day a week workers and we-
Bruce: 30:58 We're objects in
motion.
Cathryn: 31:02 Yeah. And we have
multiple disciplines that we are doing, and people that didn't love us as much
as they should have in the past, have accused us of being workaholics. I don't
know what that means.
Bruce: 31:17 People accused us of
that?
Cathryn: 31:18 Yeah.
Bruce: 31:18 Okay.
Cathryn: 31:19 I
don't know what that means though. It's if you love your work...
Bruce: 31:21 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 31:21 Right.
Bruce: 31:22 Why would you stop?
Cathryn: 31:22 I
don't know why that's bad.
Blaine
Parker: 31:26 We know people who
do things like, run an IT company. No, you got to stop at some point because
you'll go crazy probably. But I got to imagine living here at the beach in
Marina del Ray, you probably find yourselves being able to go, "I can stop
for a little bit and go out there." [crosstalk 00:31:44]
Cathryn: 31:43 You know what? But
you're right. You've pegged us right. We are mountain bikers. We love to... Or
even just bike along the beach path here, but inevitably while we're doing it,
we'll solve some creative problems. So, it just really... I practice yoga three
times a week. I ride my bike to the yoga studio. I do an hour and a half class
with a maniac who's really mean, and then I ride back. But I never have a class
where I don't solve a creative problem or figure something out in the midst of
that. So, some people will be like, "You need to take a break and be
more... Whatever."
Blaine
Parker: 32:19 So Bruce, does she
come home from yoga all sweaty and dripping and go "I solved it."
Cathryn: 32:26 Yeah.
Bruce: 32:26 Yeah, that sounds
like a very familiar story for me.
Honey
Parker: 32:30 Whenever I get too
wound up planning I'd be like, "Go for a run now. Go." Or... So we
live in Park City. So, I'd go ski some laps and come home, and it changes
everything.
Cathryn: 32:41 It changes
everything. So, does that make me a workaholic? Or does that make me somebody
who... I am doing the thing that I love. I am doing yoga, going skiing, or
going for a bike ride, and it gives me some clarity in my work. So, I don't
know. I don't think other people should judge your process.
Honey
Parker: 33:02 No.[crosstalk
00:33:03]
Blaine
Parker: 33:03 Well, it's also not
like you're neglecting the baby here anyway.
Cathryn: 33:07 Yeah, we don't have
a baby. We have the dog that treat like a baby.
Blaine
Parker: 33:10 And, we were
disappointed to have not met Tucker.
Cathryn: 33:13 Yes. But are there
not enough images of the dog?
Blaine
Parker: 33:13 There is a...
Honey
Parker: 33:16 The painting is
pretty fabulous.
Blaine
Parker: 33:18 Yeah, a four foot
high portrait of Tucker over the fireplace. So how do you... Does the dog sit
still for a portrait or do you need a photograph.
Cathryn: 33:27 It was a photograph.
Blaine
Parker: 33:28 Okay.
Honey
Parker: 33:29 So Cathryn, when you
were directing "Cook Off", Bruce, what was your involvement or were
you involved-
Cathryn: 33:35 Bruce was a producer
on the film and we're co-screenwriters of it, although it's curb your
enthusiasm. What we wrote was a scriptment 110-page description of everything
that happened, with certain jokes in lines of dialogue. But our cast was
ridiculous.
Honey
Parker: 33:55 Who wasn't in that
film? [crosstalk 00:33:56] Every time we're... And there is Marcia Wallace
[crosstalk 00:34:01]
Cathryn: 34:00 There's Marcia
Wallace, there's Melissa McCarthy, there's...
Bruce: 34:04 Gavin MacLeod.
Cathryn: 34:04 Gavin MacLeod-
Blaine
Parker: 34:05 Everybody who's a
comic actor in Hollywood was in that movie.
Cathryn: 34:08 Yeah, it was really
fun. I was a second city person. There were Groundlings people. There was a lot
of cross pollination amongst that improv community and we just had amazing
people.
Honey
Parker: 34:18 You had half the
Reno cast.
Cathryn: 34:20 Yep. Yep. Wendi
McLendon Covey...[crosstalk 00:34:23]
Honey
Parker: 34:22 Oh, she blew me
away[crosstalk 00:34:25]
Cathryn: 34:24 She's adorable in
the movie.
Honey
Parker: 34:25 The scenes between
the two of you where you're saying something and she's just giving a look.
Cathryn: 34:29 Yeah. The slow burns
of Pauline Solfest are forever etched in my mind
after editing the movie. So anyway, Bruce was a full producer on that movie and
deeply involved. So, that was... That's just another area in which we
collaborate.
Blaine
Parker: 34:44 So... And here's a
question. You're directing a movie?
Cathryn: 34:47 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 34:48 Bruce, you're
producing this movie.
Bruce: 34:50 Yes.
Blaine
Parker: 34:50 And then you go home
at night. What are the conversations like?
Cathryn: 34:53 Oh, when you're
shooting?
Blaine
Parker: 34:55 Yeah.
Cathryn: 34:56 What time are we
setting the alarm.
Bruce: 34:57 [crosstalk 00:34:57]
Well, I've got three hours to sleep.
Cathryn: 35:00 Do we have any food,
and what time are we getting up. Oh, I got to call the AD because we've just
lost the location or whatever.
Honey
Parker: 35:08 And how long was
that process?
Cathryn: 35:10 Shooting those
movies?
Honey
Parker: 35:11 Shooting, yeah.
Cathryn: 35:11 Both of the movies
that I directed were sag low-budget modified, low budget independent films.
And, both of them were made in three six-day weeks of shooting, which is very
short.
Blaine
Parker: 35:24 Wow. Three six-day weeks?
Cathryn: 35:25 Yeah. And then we
did both... There was B units and other shooting that happened post principal
photography. But principal photography was three eight-day weeks, three six-day
weeks sorry.
Blaine
Parker: 35:38 So was that... And
Muffin Top.
Cathryn: 35:39 And Muffin Top was
the same. Yeah, it's really hard. So, you're shooting more pages a day even
than you shoot on television, which is at least twice as fast as you generally
shoot a feature. When we were making one of our movies with Amblin, or the
movie we made with Sony, there are days when we're shooting half page, or a
page and half on both Cook Off and Muffin Top. We could have seven, eight, nine
page days. TV is maybe four to five pages.
Blaine
Parker: 36:09 I'm suddenly
thinking... Especially the Muffin Top, because you get a lot of props for
Muffin Top for putting it out there.
Cathryn: 36:14 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 36:15 What's that
conversation between the two of you. Bruce you're saying, "Yeah. Put it
out there."
Bruce: 36:19 Oh, you mean in
terms of her Muffin Top?
Blaine
Parker: 36:22 Yeah.
Cathryn: 36:23 Oh Yeah.
Bruce: 36:24 That was a stunt
stomach. It really wasn't[crosstalk 00:36:28]
Cathryn: 36:28 No. I did put on
weight for the movie but[crosstalk 00:36:30]
Blaine
Parker: 36:30 Not so much the
Muffin Top itself, but you got a lot of props for putting out there the idea
that this whole glamor culture that we're obsessed with is ridiculous. And, go
out there and be not glamorous. Go out there and be raw.
Cathryn: 36:44 Well I've always
been about being funny. I've never tried... Even when I'm being an actor for
other people, my wheelhouse has never been, "Oh, your glamorous leading lady."
That's kind of never been what I even wanted to do.
Bruce: 36:58 I'm the glamorous
one.
Cathryn: 36:59 He's the glamorous-
Blaine
Parker: 37:00 I
noticed that.
Honey
Parker: 37:01 I
was surprised when you were wearing a gown when we walked in, but-
Bruce: 37:03 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 37:04 It works ultimately.
Bruce: 37:05 I
know I'm a eye candy. That's just how I roll.
Cathryn: 37:09 I
wish. I can't even get them to wear a kilt but I tried. I think Kilts are sexy
but-
Honey
Parker: 37:17 Mr. Parker for our
first anniversary, wore a kilt.
Blaine
Parker: 37:17 I
did?
Honey
Parker: 37:20 You did.
Cathryn: 37:20 They're great.
Blaine
Parker: 37:21 Kilts are great.
Cathryn: 37:22 They're very... He's
Scottish. W. Bruce Cameron.[crosstalk 00:37:25]
Bruce: 37:24 Of course, silly me.
Cathryn: 37:25 How Scottish can you
be and you won't wear one.
Blaine
Parker: 37:30 Yeah. The clan
Cameron?
Bruce: 37:31 I
have-
Cathryn: 37:32 Yeah we got a plaid,
we got the whole thing.
Bruce: 37:33 I
have the legs of a donkey. And if I wore a kilt, the police would come. The
SWAT team would break down the door, "Put the kilt down Mr.Cameron."[crosstalk 00:37:42]
Cathryn: 37:44 But to your point.
So Muffin Top... This is just a sad story but there was a very awkward day on
set where I had cast... So, Marcia Wallace was in both of those movies because
she was a dear friend of ours and so talented, and we had her do cameos in both
of those movies as Marcia Wallace. She would play Marcia Wallace as Marcia
Wallace in both of those movies. And-
Bruce: 38:07 Very convincingly.
Cathryn: 38:07 Very committed.
Blaine
Parker: 38:07 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 38:09 She was spot on.
Cathryn: 38:10 But the young man
who[crosstalk 00:38:13] plays her son in Muffin Top, is in fact her son. Mikey
Hawley is Marcia Wallace's son. And because it was a low budget movie, we were
shooting in Marcia Wallace's house. Marcia Wallace's son in Marcia Wallace's
son's bedroom. And, there's a bedroom scene between us that's very funny
because I have all these things going on. I have breast pads, and a thing in my
hair, and it's all not going well in our making out in the bedroom. And we were
shooting it, and Bruce... It was a small room. Bruce was standing in the
corner, and didn't you get sort of caught in the shot[inaudible 00:38:51]?
Bruce: 38:51 I
was drinking a cup of coffee, and then the DP calls, "Cut." which
rarely happens, but sometimes... And he says, "Well we've got a problem.
We're shooting Cathryn and Mikey rolling around on the bed and then there's
clearly Bruce Cameron her husband standing in the doorway drinking coffee and
watching. I don't think that's the movie we set out to make."
Blaine
Parker: 38:51 That's one for the
tape reel.
Cathryn: 38:51 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 39:13 Is it safe to assume
that you are each other's biggest fans?
Cathryn: 39:22 I
would love to have that title but I'm sorry to say that Bruce's biggest fan
really has to be his mom, who is the most... The greatest... Not a stage mom
because he's not an actor, but... The wonderful story that we tell about her,
she will sell anybody that she meets. She's 89 years old now?
Bruce: 39:44 She's 89.
Cathryn: 39:45 She's 89. She'll
sell anybody that she meets. They need to read A Dog's Purpose. They need to buy
it, blah, blah, blah. She will sell you the book personally. If you don't want
to buy the book, she'll give it to you. She just wants you to read the book.
And, she belongs to a church in Northern Michigan and at little Episcopal
church... And every Sunday, she would set up a card table in the front steps of
the church, with all of Bruce's books and sell people the books.
And then, they got a new priest and the new
priest said, "That's kind of inappropriate. And, remember when Jesus got
all mad and turned over all the tables and money changers... We don't sell
stuff before people come into church. And so, it's really inappropriate. We
would ask you not to do that anymore." And she's like, "Mm-hmm
(affirmative)" And then next Sunday she's there with her card table. And
what are you going to do with a five foot-tall, 89 year old woman?
Honey
Parker: 40:36 Nothing.
Cathryn: 40:36 Really, carry her
off? No. She's still selling the books. I'm a big fan but I just don't know if
I can compete with your mum.
Honey
Parker: 40:45 That's hysterical.
Blaine
Parker: 40:45 Okay. Let's assume
mum get a pass because there're genes involved.
Cathryn: 40:49 Yeah.
Bruce: 40:49 Okay.
Blaine
Parker: 40:50 So, what is it your
favorite work of the others? That may not be what people might expect
[crosstalk 00:40:59]
Bruce: 40:58 Well, it's always
complicated to ask that of people in creative endeavors, because I would pick
something that hasn't yet been shot, which is the movie that Cathryn is
currently putting together, the financing on as being her. I think that's her
best work of today.
Cathryn: 41:19 I
think so too. It doesn't exist yet but I'm proud [inaudible 00:41:24]
Blaine
Parker: 41:23 Okay.
Cathryn: 41:23 But for Bruce, I'm
going to... There are some real Bruce Cameron fans who kind of pride themselves
on this. My favorite book of his is Emory's gift, which is the second novel
that was published by Macmillan after A Dog's Purpose. They were so happy with
the Dogs Purpose they literally said, "Write it on a napkin and we'll give
you a book deal." And, that was the book that you chose to write, and I
just... It's a Christian allegory.
It's a story of a boy and a grizzly bear. And,
it takes place in Idaho and it's just a-
Blaine
Parker: 41:23 A boy and a grizzly
bear Christian.
Cathryn: 42:01 Mm-hmm
(affirmative). And it's just a beautiful... It's very much in the CS Lewis
tradition of...
Blaine
Parker: 42:06 Okay. I was going to
say Christian allegory we're talking about Jonathan Livingston Seagull...
Cathryn: 42:09 No. It's really more
like The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe kind of a thing, where the Christ
figure is represented by this bear, and it's just a beautiful book. It's funny.
Anything Bruce read, there's funny things in it, but it's really tender, and its about a guy in junior high, which is the worst time of
life. And, I think Bruce is just so accurately captures how horrible everyone
when they're in seventh grade. And for me, it's just beautiful writing and I
think that's my favorite.
Blaine
Parker: 42:40 And I think Bruce
likes it too.
Bruce: 42:42 Yeah, thanks. You
surprise me because Cathryn is such a relentless marketer, and I just have to
say she's... She was way out ahead of all the so called social media,
advertisers, and experts. She had to gain the thing with very little money and
yet, I credit her with getting my first novel on the New York Times bestseller
list.
Cathryn: 43:03 Although you know
what? Wait a second. Favorite is?
Bruce: 43:03 What?
Cathryn: 43:04 Because I just
reread it yesterday is, A Dog's Promise, which is coming out in two weeks.
Because the thing about The Dog's Purpose franchise is that, if people have
only read The Dog's Purpose, they're like, "I don't know if I can do that
again." I'm like, "You know what? Do it again."
Honey
Parker: 43:21 Yeah.
Cathryn: 43:21 Because every...
Because it switches up. This dog soul of Bailey, Bailey, Bailey is evolving.
And so, in the dog's journey the game changes, and there are very... But if you
read A Dog's Journey, or saw the movie, or well, "That's the end
obviously.&quoquot;
Honey
Parker: 43:40 Right.
Cathryn: 43:41 And then, A Dog's
Promise is such a switch up of the game, of the soul that is now so evolved
that he's basically an angel and doesn't know it, and gets sent back to earth
to do some very important things. And, I think it's the greatest evolution of
the three books. I think it's the most enjoyable. It has the most jokes, it's
really funny, and then on the last page I gasped. I was like, "What have
you done to me?"
Blaine
Parker: 44:13 I'm not going to
give anything away but the book is much different.
Cathryn: 44:13 Yeah, it's really
different.
Blaine
Parker: 44:18 Yeah, I was like,
"Hey, things have changed."
Cathryn: 44:20 Yeah, things change.
Honey
Parker: 44:21 When I started
watching A Dog's Journey I was like,
"Okay. I get the pattern the dog comes back. I'm setting myself up for
this. I know there's going to be... But ultimately everything... I'm sure will
work out but there's going to be some dogs that don't make it to the end of the
movie."
Cathryn: 44:36 Yeah.
Honey
Parker: 44:37 And, I'm like,
"Oh my God that got me again." It was very good.
Cathryn: 44:42 My best friend
Marissa Jaret Winokur was sitting next to me at the
premiere. And, the whole time she's like, "Oh,[inaudible 00:44:49]God. Oh,
my God." Just like slapping me.
Bruce: 44:53 For those of you who
can't see this podcast, my wife is pounding [inaudible 00:44:58] She is
punching me to illustrate the story[crosstalk 00:44:59]
Cathryn: 44:59 Well she kept
slapping me.
Bruce: 44:59 Okay. We get that.
Honey
Parker: 45:04 I
think the police dog was the toughest one for me.
Cathryn: 45:08 Yeah[crosstalk
00:45:08].
Blaine
Parker: 45:08 Yeah, if you hadn't
seen[crosstalk 00:45:09]
Cathryn: 45:10 Yeah, and A Dog's
Purpose. Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 45:10 ... The movies yet,
be prepared. Yes, dogs do pass. However-
Cathryn: 45:15 But they come back.
Honey
Parker: 45:15 They come back.
Blaine
Parker: 45:18 Okay. There was a
movie back in what? The 90s? All Dogs Go To Heaven.
Cathryn: 45:22 Yeah.
Blaine
Parker: 45:22 I
think this is, all dogs get reincarnated.
Bruce: 45:24 There you go.
Cathryn: 45:24 Yeah. They go to
heaven and then they come back.
Blaine
Parker: 45:28 Yeah, it works
really well, and there are some great dogs. The only thing I kept thinking
watching these movies is, how did they do that? How did they control these
dogs? How... Did Gail Mancuso... She ever worked the dogs before?
Cathryn: 45:41 Well...
Blaine
Parker: 45:41 I
had no idea.
Cathryn: 45:42 Gail would tell
you... Anyone will tell you it's our dog teams. We had... On A Dog's Journey,
It was Bonnie Judd who's amazing, and has been working in the business for...
Since Air Bud. She like, "He's an amazing dog trainer." And then,
Theresa Miller was our dog handler on A Dog's Way Home. And, that was a
particularly challenging thing because we had decided long with Sony that
because this was the story of a rescue dog, that we would rescue a dog to be
the star of the film.
So, we did a nationwide search and we found
this dog Shelby, who came out of a rural shelter in Tennessee, and had been
living in a garbage dump, and had not...
Blaine
Parker: 46:30 Yeah, her story
is...
Cathryn: 46:31 It's amazing.
Blaine
Parker: 46:33 ... Amazing.
Cathryn: 46:34 And then became the
book Shelby story. The children's book. But anyway, she was amazing, but she
was an untrained dog. And then, her double dog who was Amber, was also a
rescue. They're both rescues. They look so much alike that it's... We can tell
what shot is Amber, which is Shelby, but no one else can. Although I promise
you every close up is Shelby because I was like, "Shelby is the Ingrid
Bergman of dogs. She just have that face." She so brute a well.
Amber has to jump over logs, and do all the
stunts, and run around, and then it's time to close up and then bring in
Shelby. And-
Bruce: 47:11 Well, Amber had so
much energy and was so powerful, that it was all about trying to get her to
slow down. There's a scene in A Dog's Way Home where... The dog, Bella is the
character's name. Bella runs up a slide to get over a fence. And the problem
with that shot... So, that's Amber doing that because Shelby would be like,
"I did once I'm not going do it again.
Cathryn: 47:11 I'm going to my
trailer.
Bruce: 47:33 Or a treat, and a
massage. But Amber... Every time we shot it, she would make it practically over
the fence in one leap. She could hit that slide so fastest and I was like,
"How do you slow this dog?"
Cathryn: 47:47 Well, ultimately we
use slow... We shot more frames [crosstalk 00:47:50]so we can her low down.
Bruce: 47:50 So they could slow
her down. She powered up that slide. She has so much enthusiasm. She loved the
snow. Shelby was from Tennessee and it said, "Whatever this stuff is, I'm
out." So we... A lot of the scenes it's Amber in the snow, and you can
just see the energy she brings. She was so excited to be in the snow.
Cathryn: 48:11 My joke about Amber
and Shelby was that it was very much like, Joan Crawford and Bette Davis. They
were very jealous every time. In terms of if one of them was on camera, the
other one is just looking them like, "Why is it you? I could have done
that."
Bruce: 48:25 Yes. That's exactly
right.
Blaine
Parker: 48:27 As a couple working
together in this crazy town, would you have it any other way? This has been
part one of Cathryn Michon and W. Bruce Cameron of
Surprise Hit Films recorded in Marina Del Rey, California. If you want to know
more about Bruce, and his current book tour supporting the new book "A
Dog's Promise", visit wbrucecameron.com. That is wbrucecameron.com.
Honey
Parker: 48:52 And, join us next
time as we return to Marina Del Rey to continue this conversation.
Blaine
Parker: 48:57 We're going to hear
some interesting and useful tips about the dynamics of working as a couple with
staff, especially when it comes to contentious conversation.
Honey
Parker: 49:06 And why you maybe
shouldn't be working together as a couple.
Blaine
Parker: 49:09 And, in perhaps the
most Hollywood moment of all in the entire conversation, a romantic moment that
involves Cathryn promising to save her receipts.
Honey
Parker: 49:19 That was very
romantic.
Blaine
Parker: 49:21 Join us for part two
of "A Dog's Purpose" screenwriters Cathryn Michon
and W. Bruce Cameron next time, here on
CoupleCo: Working With Your Spouse For Fun and Profit.
Honey
Parker: 49:30 Copyright 2019. All
rights reserved.
Blaine
Parker: 49:33 Love you baby.
Honey
Parker: 49:33 Love you too.
Blaine
Parker: 49:34 CoupleCo out.
