The PodcastEPISODE #75
Sex & Your Business: Dr. Rachna Jain of InLoveAndBiz.com It’s not uncommon: When a couple goes into business together, they might find they’re not having sex as often. Clinical psychologist Dr. Rachna Jain is back with the age-old question: Is your business the reason you’re not having sex? Research shows that the best sex happens when a couple feels connected to each other. It's not physical thing, but emotional, psychological and mental. So often, bedroom challenges actually start outside the bedroom. The bedroom merely becomes the symptom. When a couple loses intimacy, is work taking up too much time and take too much importance? Is it necessary to carve out time to just connect with each other? Do you need new boundaries or rules? (We even look at the Hundred Dollar Rule used by the owners of Harcourts Desert Homes in Palm springs, episodes 68 & 69.) Is it necessary to find a pivot? In some cases, it could be as simple as a hug. For one famous author, the pivot is a cheese omelet. And at the bottom of all of this: Communication. CLICK HERE FOR A COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF PLACES TO HEAR THIS SHOW FOR ITUNES, CLICK HERE FOR SOUNDLCOUD, CLICK HERE DOWNLOAD THE MP3 BY RIGHT-CLICKING HERE AND SELECTING "SAVE AS" |
THE SHOW NOTES
Is being in business together as a couple the reason you’re not having sex anymore? Your sex life as a couple and your business are two important things that need constant devotion and care. Your business might be doing well, and maybe you’re making a six-figure-a-month in revenue, but is that the reason your emotional revenue is dwindling by the day?
In this episode of CoupleCo, we’re joined by Dr. Rachna Jain, the founder of inloveandbiz.com, a relationship program for entrepreneurial couples. She is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in couples and marital therapy, and is the author of several books and publications. As a nationally recognized professional in the relationships psychology field, Dr. Jain is back on CoupleCo. We’re going to discuss a subject that is near and dear to the heart of every CoupleCo, but not everyone wants to talk about it. This is The Sex Talk.
Today, Dr. Jain proposes that your business might be the reason you're not having sex anymore. Many challenges involving the bedroom most likely start outside the bedroom. And what do you do about it? Could the answer be as simple as a cheese omelet? You’re about to find out.
Takeaways
Summary
Links
Dr. Rachna Jain’s website
Is being in business together as a couple the reason you’re not having sex anymore? Your sex life as a couple and your business are two important things that need constant devotion and care. Your business might be doing well, and maybe you’re making a six-figure-a-month in revenue, but is that the reason your emotional revenue is dwindling by the day?
In this episode of CoupleCo, we’re joined by Dr. Rachna Jain, the founder of inloveandbiz.com, a relationship program for entrepreneurial couples. She is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in couples and marital therapy, and is the author of several books and publications. As a nationally recognized professional in the relationships psychology field, Dr. Jain is back on CoupleCo. We’re going to discuss a subject that is near and dear to the heart of every CoupleCo, but not everyone wants to talk about it. This is The Sex Talk.
Today, Dr. Jain proposes that your business might be the reason you're not having sex anymore. Many challenges involving the bedroom most likely start outside the bedroom. And what do you do about it? Could the answer be as simple as a cheese omelet? You’re about to find out.
Takeaways
- How your business could be the reason you’re not having sex anymore
- How your business can impact your sex life
- Why couples lose intimacy
- How boundaries or rules can help establish priority of the relationship
- How to address challenges in your sex life
- How to reconnect and create a greater sense of intimacy
Summary
- How being in business together is impacting your intimacy [04:45]
- Reason why many couples lose sense of connection to their partners’ internal world [05:50]
- How stressful situations and changes in your business can affect your sexual interest [7:05]
- Honey’s story on how she almost lost her sense of connection and intimacy and how she reconnected [08:50]
- Putting distinctions or boundaries around work and the relationship [09:25]
- What to do if you realize you’ve lost intimacy and sexual connection [10:30]
- Knowing what and who you want to be to each other in a relationship [11:05]
- Leveraging each other's strengths [12:50]
- Expressing your business fears through communication [14:00]
- Handling stress and difficult times in business by finding what helps you “pivot” [15:30]
- Important things to do to restore your sense of connection during tough times [18:00]
- Building boundaries and structure to help reduce friction points [21:00]
- Level of commitment to boundaries [24:00]
- Repairing your relationship when you’re not having sex anymore. [28:00]
- Why you've lost intimacy recap by Honey Parker and Dr. Jain [29:30]
Links
Dr. Rachna Jain’s website
THE TRANSCRIPT
Honey Parker: 00:01 You're a giver.
Blaine Parker: 00:03 You know, you've said that before.
Honey Parker: 00:06 Well, maybe this time I mean it.
Blaine Parker: 00:09 If you keep that up, it's going to go to my head.
Honey Parker: 00:14 I don't know. I don't think it will.
Blaine Parker: 00:14 Why are you so sure of that?
Honey Parker: 00:17 That it won't go to your head?
Blaine Parker: 00:18 Yeah.
Honey Parker: 00:18 Because you're very New England-y. Those things don't go to your head.
Blaine Parker: 00:22 Well, they can go to my head in a very covert New England kind of way.
Honey Parker: 00:27 I don't know what that means.
Blaine Parker: 00:29 You're about to find out.
Welcome to CoupleCo: Working With Your Spouse For Fun And Profit. I'm Blaine Parker.
Honey Parker: 00:37 Which makes me Honey Parker.
Blaine Parker: 00:38 And, as a couple in business together, we are coming to you from the Couple Coach, our compact Transamerican land yacht.
Honey Parker: 00:44 We're navigating the nation in search of standout couples in business together.
Blaine Parker: 00:48 And we're bringing them to you so you can hear their inspiring stories of crushing it in business without crushing each other.
Honey Parker: 00:54 In this episode, she's back.
Blaine Parker: 00:56 She's back.
Honey Parker: 00:59 We love Dr. Rachna Jain. And her interviews are incredibly useful and very popular.
Blaine Parker: 01:05 And now, we are going to discuss a subject that is near and dear to the heart of every CoupleCo.
Honey Parker: 01:13 But not everyone wants to talk about it.
Blaine Parker: 01:15 And we're not talking about Smokin' Mary Smoked Bloody Mary Mix.
Honey Parker: 01:19 Wow, that transition was off of a negative.
Blaine Parker: 01:22 Is that a problem?
Honey Parker: 01:25 Well, no because it's Smokin' Mary.
Blaine Parker: 01:25 Smokin' Mary.
Honey Parker: 01:28 Nothing's a problem.
Blaine Parker: 01:29 No.
Honey Parker: 01:29 Because Smokin' Mary is a fantastic mixer made with only fresh, only whole tomatoes.
Blaine Parker: 01:37 They are so fresh, they belong in this episode. And there are no-
Honey Parker: 01:41 I know what's coming.
Blaine Parker: 01:42 ... no reconstituted tomato juice like the big brands.
Honey Parker: 01:45 And you can mix it with the distilled spirit of your choice for a fantastic tasting cocktail.
Blaine Parker: 01:51 Or you can mix it in fabulous alcohol free virgin cocktails.
Honey Parker: 01:55 And Smokin' Mary, as you may know, is a couple owned business, perhaps just like you.
Blaine Parker: 02:00 Yes, Smoking Laurie and Smoking Marc own Smokin' Mary. Smokin' Mary Smoked Bloody Mary Mix. Hey, nice tomatoes. Online at smokinmary.com.
Honey Parker: 02:10 Now CoupleCo is going to be sending out some very big news soon.
Blaine Parker: 02:14 That's right. If you want to get on our mailing list, go to coupleco.com.
Honey Parker: 02:18 That's coupleco.com.
Blaine Parker: 02:20 So this episode is the one that forever will be known as the sex talk.
Honey Parker: 02:26 Dun dun dun.
Blaine Parker: 02:26 Dun dun dun.
Honey Parker: 02:28 That old chestnut.
Blaine Parker: 02:29 Yes, that old chestnut. The sex talk. Who doesn't love a good sex talk? Dr. Rachna Jain is our favorite clinical psychologist, and her website is called inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 02:42 Guess what she talks about there?
Blaine Parker: 02:44 Accounting.
Honey Parker: 02:45 Perhaps, but no.
Blaine Parker: 02:48 Perhaps?
Honey Parker: 02:50 Maybe there's a part of the website I've missed where she discusses accounting, but she does propose that your business might be the reason you're not having sex anymore.
Blaine Parker: 02:58 And like many challenges involving the bedroom, it most likely starts outside the bedroom.
Honey Parker: 03:04 And what do you do about it?
Blaine Parker: 03:05 Could the answer be as simple as, ooh, I don't know, a cheese omelet?
Honey Parker: 03:09 That is really bizarre, and I think that, no, I don't think that's the answer.
Blaine Parker: 03:14 Yeah. But I don't know. Listen to this episode, you might be surprised.
Honey Parker: 03:16 Oh, that's right.
Blaine Parker: 03:17 This is CoupleCo where anything can happen. Here now, the possibility that your business is the reason you're not having sex starring Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com.
We are back in Westminster, Maryland.
Honey Parker: 03:32 Beautiful Westminster, Maryland.
Blaine Parker: 03:34 Beautiful Westminster, Maryland. It is gorgeous here. You wake up in the morning and the bird song is just out of control. It's a frenzy of tweets.
Honey Parker: 03:41 Rolling green lawns, there are horses about. We hear the cows mooing.
Blaine Parker: 03:46 Moo. There's some angry cows. And the twitter you're hearing there is not a bird, but that is the fabulous Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com, and profitablepopularity.com as well. We should mention that just because Dr. Jain was one of the first people ever to be selling stuff on the internet, and doing social media marketing, and telling the world how to get the rest of the world to buy your stuff, basically, is that about it?
Honey Parker: 04:15 Pay attention.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:16 Yeah. At least pay attention. Yeah. At least pay attention. Buy your stuff.
Blaine Parker: 04:16 Buy your stuff.
Honey Parker: 04:16 buymystuff.com.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:21 Exactly. That's great.
Blaine Parker: 04:22 Okay. So it's not necessarily about buying stuff, but about paying attention. But anyway, I think people are going to pay attention to this because for some reason with all the interviews we have done with Dr. Jain, who is our single most popular guest on this show-
Honey Parker: 04:36 Ever.
Blaine Parker: 04:36 ... possibly because she's the only one we have back repeatedly and she's smarter than the rest of us and she sounds amazing. We're going to talk about the age old question: is being in business together why you're not having sex?
Honey Parker: 04:50 Dun dun dun.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:55 Dun dun dun. All of our eyes got really big.
Blaine Parker: 04:58 And I think it's appropriate that we ask this question because this is actually one of the things that Dr Jane focuses on at her website inloveandbiz.com.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:07 Yes. And it is actually a huge, it's a huge concern.
Blaine Parker: 05:11 You know, here's what's going to happen. As soon as somebody hears this, they're just going to shut down the playback and rush to your website.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:11 Website.
Honey Parker: 05:16 See, I was going to say, she just said huge.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:21 I did, I did.
Blaine Parker: 05:21 Okay. This is going to be touchy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:23 Touchy.
Blaine Parker: 05:23 How many bad double entendres can we break up here? All right.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:30 Okay. So, yeah.
Blaine Parker: 05:31 Try to get serious.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:32 Starting to get serious.
Honey Parker: 05:33 So this is an actual problem.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:35 It is. It is a problem because, as we were talking about just a few minutes ago, just because you're together all the time, just because you have a business together, you live together, you work together, it does not mean that you're actually having true intimacy. And for many couples, especially in the early stages of business, they start off talking about, did you call that client back? Did you call that person back? Is that project going to be done on time? Did that paycheck come in? That check from the client come in? Did this come in? Did that come in? Are you picking up the dry cleaning? Are you getting food? Are you doing this? And so what gets lost in that sometimes is that intimate conversation. That sense of learning about the other person's internal world and it gets lost in sort of the daily-
Blaine Parker: 06:18 The internal world.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:21 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Blaine Parker: 06:21 Wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:23 We learned that in graduate school too.
Blaine Parker: 06:25 Wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:26 And so what gets lost is that sense of connection or intimacy to your partner's internal world and what starts to happen then is you start to feel more disconnected.
Blaine Parker: 06:36 By that way, that's not a euphemism for something else?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:38 No, it isn't.
Blaine Parker: 06:38 Okay, good.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:39 It isn't. It's like-
Blaine Parker: 06:39 I was worried for a moment.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:41 Yeah. And so you start to lose track of what's happening for them, how they're feeling, what they're thinking about, what they're dreaming for, dreaming and wanting.
And when that starts to happen then you become more disengaged and then when you become more disengaged, your sex life goes... it diminishes at minimum and it may go away completely.
Blaine Parker: 07:01 Off the rails.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:01 Or when you do have sex, it's not as satisfying as it used to be.
Honey Parker: 07:05 Because you're not as connected. It was interesting when you said that just because you're spending time together does not mean you are intimate. I mean it's not intimate time. It's a lot of time. It's high value time and it can almost masquerade as something else for awhile.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:05 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Honey Parker: 07:22 So you think that we're together, we're communicating, we talk all the time, but not about something important to your relationship outside of work.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:33 And sometimes not even something separate from the business. I have met some percentage of couples who are in business together and especially in the first years of the business or when there's a transition happening, growth, expansion, change of ideas or change of focus.
They don't talk about anything but work. And they talk about it first thing they wake up in the morning, they talk about it last thing they go to bed at night. Honey was laughing when I said something about having poor sleep hygiene, but people are answering emails at nighttime or they're looking on their phone or they're-
Blaine Parker: 07:33 That sounds awful.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 08:09 ... kind of reading things. And the thing is is that, it's one thing if one person does it in a couple. And that happens sometimes. Somebody just says, "I'm going to stay up late and answer a few emails." But when you both are sitting there doing that again and again, and it becomes... It's like night after night after night, it becomes very difficult then to put it away and kind of reconnect.
Honey Parker: 08:30 And the other person becomes furniture.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 08:32 Right.
Blaine Parker: 08:33 I just had this vision of two people sitting up in bed leaning against the pillows in the dark, bathed in the bluish glow from the screens of their smartphones.
Honey Parker: 08:42 And they might be... By anybody... It's interesting. When, and I had to stop myself from doing this because I definitely am one of those people who's... I've got the list in my head all the time. And so we would get up in the morning and we'd have a cup of coffee and we'd sit in front of our gorgeous view. And you had seen it, beautiful view of the mountains. You'd have a coffee and I would start right in and say, "How about this? Are we doing that? Who are you calling today?" And I had to give myself the rule to not do that and just have that lovely time together because that was just an awful way to kick start the day.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 09:23 And that's a really, really good example because you think of it that if you work in a job or you work in another business or you have your own business separate, you have some separation from that. You get up, you get ready, you spend time with your family, then you go to your home office or you go to your office, and then you leave it and then you come home.
But when your business is entwined, intertwined with your spouse, and you both are in the same space and you're always working together, you have to have really super capabilities to be able to put a distinctions or to put boundaries around the work. Especially if there's something very exciting happening or something very stressful. But it's so crucial to do because just even even a week of disconnection, five days of feeling disconnected, or seven days of feeling disconnected can have ramifications for how well each of you feel, your level of depression or anxiety, how well you sleep. I mean, it can have a lot of impact in such a seemingly short time.
Honey Parker: 10:28 Yeah. So here's my favorite question. You realize this has happened. You've kind of lost the intimacy in your relationship. What do you do?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 10:37 You do. Yeah.
Honey Parker: 10:37 Especially if one of you recognizes it and the other person isn't even thinking that's a problem.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 10:43 I think that whenever anyone realizes it, I think it's something that is brought up and discussed. So like in the example you gave, Honey, where you suddenly realized that you were kind of kicking off every day with, okay, let's jump in with both feet and let's get going. Or who's calling who and who's doing what. As soon as you realized it, you probably decided that you want to do something differently.
Blaine Parker: 11:05 Yeah. I got to say, I just need to jump in here because I really appreciate the fact, Honey, that you did that and you kept saying you didn't want to be the naggy wife. I could actually probably use more nagging. But Rachna, you were earlier talking about what sounded like nagging someone about getting stuff done. And I can see how that might shut things down, but I don't know that people understand just how important that is. And every time I hear Honey say she didn't want to be the naggy wife, or doesn't want to be the naggy wife., I'm thinking, well, I really appreciate that. Maybe we should hire somebody to nag me. No?
Honey Parker: 11:42 No.
Blaine Parker: 11:43 Anyway. Okay.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 11:45 She's perfectly capable taking it back over if you really need it.
Blaine Parker: 11:49 Why pay somebody to do that when I can do it?
Honey Parker: 11:51 No, I'm happy to pay somebody to that. That'd be good.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 11:55 But I think it sort of hints at, without you both saying it, but it sort of hints at who you want to be in the relationship and who you want to be to each other. You know? So, Honey, you decided that you didn't want to start off that way. And so it was something probably about how you see yourself. How you want to see yourself or how you do see yourself in the relationship. And then it was also trying to attend or take care of the relationship and say, "Okay, it needs to be different for us. Our relationship needs to be different." And Blaine, even though he may say he could use more nagging, and maybe he could, he's at least... He recognizes-
Blaine Parker: 12:29 Come on, you've met me.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 12:31 He recognizes the idea that you were saying our relationship deserves something better.
Honey Parker: 12:36 Yeah. And I think for me in that particular case, I saw him handling it differently. So I thought, okay, well this is actually possible because he's doing it.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 12:49 Mm-hmm (affirmative) And that's a great example too. That it goes back to something that we had talked about another time around, kind of leveraging each other's strengths. That many times couples are attracted to each other because one is more steady and while one is a little bit more active or high strung, you might say. Somebody is more stable and has maybe lower risk tolerance, while the other one is the go getter and is out there. It's very, very common for sort of that idea of somewhat opposites to attract. And so when that happens, you each can become a very good example for each other. That how, if the other person is doing it and they're not suffering any ill effects, maybe there's another way to try to be.
Honey Parker: 13:31 Yeah, he seemed to enjoy his coffee.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 13:33 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Blaine Parker: 13:34 I did.
Honey Parker: 13:34 So what if... Because that was something-
Blaine Parker: 13:37 I still do because you still don't nag me.
Honey Parker: 13:37 No. That was-
Blaine Parker: 13:38 Although, suddenly I just got this vision of hiring somebody in leather with a whip to nag me and it's like, that's just kind of twisted.
Honey Parker: 13:47 We're in a sex conversation.
Blaine Parker: 13:48 Well, exactly. That's why I went there. And it's just, it's an all... This is the problem of being a writer, is you think about things like this.
Honey Parker: 13:53 I hadn't thought about it.
Blaine Parker: 13:55 Well, you're not this writer.
Honey Parker: 13:57 True. So what if-
Blaine Parker: 14:01 I'm here for the guys in the room.
Honey Parker: 14:03 So it's one thing to recognize something in yourself because then you can really act on it. But what if you recognize something in the other person that they haven't recognized yet?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 14:13 So I think that's great. And that probably is likely to happen, even maybe more frequently. When that happens, I would ask a question and I would say, "Honey, what I noticed is that every morning, as soon as we get up and we hit the floor, hit the floor and get coffee, sit down, you basically start asking me what I'm going to do today, what's going on and who am I calling and what's happening. And I find that a little bit stressful. And I'm just curious what you're hoping I'll say or what you're trying to have happen from that."
And basically just give them a chance to tell you, you know, "Well, I'm afraid you're not gonna get this done and I feel worried about this and I feel stressed about money and I feel this and I feel that and I feel that." And then it becomes a chance for the partner to address their fear without addressing the specifics.
Honey Parker: 15:03 Does the person who asked the question get to say, "Well, this is how that's hitting me. This is how that's affecting me"?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 15:10 Yeah, definitely. I think so. Because I think if I basically open a conversation and I say, "Honey, I noticed this. What are you feeling that's driving this? Or what do you, what are you hoping I'll do?" It does give you a place to say, "Well, I feel stressed because we can't meet our mortgage or something and we need..." You know, whatever.
Blaine Parker: 15:28 Here's what I'm hearing now is, "Uh-oh, we have to have a conversation about it." And that... Going back to what was our last interview, which you may listen to, about fear. A lot of people are afraid of having that conversation. How the heck do you have it?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 15:44 Well I think that it's... And I know sometimes when I suggest things it feels maybe a little difficult because you have to have a certain amount of distance from the situation, you know? But, I really do think if you can adopt a position or a stance of curiosity, and really it's not about what's right or wrong, it's it's really about... I just really want to understand what's going on for you. And so, Honey, if you don't mind, let's play this out just for a minute. So if Blaine had asked you, "Honey, I noticed that you do this every morning. What's going on for you?" What would you have said?
Honey Parker: 16:22 It would have been stress. And I'm concerned that these things are going to fall through the cracks. And they're in my head and I feel like if I say them now, maybe I will save something from going south.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 16:31 Okay, great. So kind of a little bit of fear about things falling apart or something like that. So is there something that Blaine can do that would soothe you or calm you on a kind of a visceral level? Like not really at the level of words, but can he rub your back or can he do something, anything like that that would have soothed you at that point?
Honey Parker: 16:54 If he had said, "You know what? Let's have our coffee and in a half an hour or an hour we can have a meeting and run down the business stuff. But let's just have a time where we enjoy each other."
Dr. Rachna Jain: 17:07 Perfect. So, right. So then he also could have asked you. He could have said, "Okay, if we don't have this conversation now, what would make it, what would make it okay for us to defer it for a time being?"
And you could've come back and said, "Well, okay, maybe if we agree to have it in half hour." And then Blaine could have decided, "Yes, that's fine." Or Blaine could have asked for something else. But it's the issue of not saying you're wrong, not coming to you and saying, "Honey, you're wrong for doing this" or "Blaine, you're wrong for not speaking up and not trying to plan everything as soon as you wake up." But really just trying to say, "What is going on? What are you feeling? Or what are you needing?" And giving you a chance to say what you need. And then giving Blaine a chance to say, "Okay, I can do that" or "I can't do that."
Honey Parker: 17:07 Right.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 17:51 And then sometimes if you even just articulate that, "I feel stressed, I feel worried that something's gonna fall apart." For some couples there's just something that the other partner can do. They can come rub their back, they can give them a hug, they can hold their hand, they can do something physically that comforts them. And that can make all the anxiety go away too. So in your own relationship, for all the people listening, you probably have those little things where it's like the small hinge that opens the door. It's like it pivots everything. And so you can just, you can adopt a pivot. You can rub a person's back and say, "Okay, I totally get it. You're totally stressed out. You want to get going. I love that. But let's just take 30 minutes and be together and then we'll come back to it."
Honey Parker: 18:32 Yeah. I mean, this is not TMI, but for us typically if I'm going to that place Blaine will say, "Come here." Say it like that. "Come here." You know?
Blaine Parker: 18:43 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Pretty much that's how it sounds.
Honey Parker: 18:43 And it's just a hug.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 18:45 A hug, yup.
Honey Parker: 18:45 You know? And I can feel myself letting things go.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 18:50 Absolutely. And it's so... I just wanted to share a quick story about that. There's so much individuality in that, but yet if you ask any couple, they know what those things are. I was reading an article about Anne Lamott, the writer. She just got married and she's 65-
Blaine Parker: 19:04 Yes, she did.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 19:05 ... and she just got married.
Blaine Parker: 19:06 Bird by Bird is probably her most famous book.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 19:08 Yes. And she writes about writing as well as other kinds of stuff. And I was reading just a newspaper article about her meeting her spouse and how they met and they get along and it was her first marriage and she's 65. So she basically, her kind of point was that don't give up hope.
What was really touching for me was when I read the story, the article, he was quoted, her husband was quoted as saying that she's very passionate, she's very kind of... It came across as a little bit high strung, a little bit... She cares deeply and can be anxious and stressed and he's a little bit more laid back and a little bit calmer and that she always feels like what's going to go wrong? And he goes into every situation like nothing will go wrong, this will be just fine. So what she said was that one of the things she loves best about him is when she starts to get what I call squinchy. Like all tight and-
Blaine Parker: 19:08 Squinchy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:02 ... squinched up and really wound-
Blaine Parker: 20:03 I think we all know that feeling.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:04 ... wound really tight. He makes her a cheese omelet.
Blaine Parker: 20:04 What?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:04 Yeah.
Blaine Parker: 20:06 A cheese omelet?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:09 Yeah. So he knows right away that he should make her a cheese omelet. And while he does it, he apparently talks to her soothingly. And if you're listening, I hope I have the story right. But he talks to her soothingly and he gives her a cheese omelet and that's their pivot. That's an example of a pivot.
Blaine Parker: 20:09 That's really funny.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:27 But it's so unique. But in their relationship, they have this cheese omelet thing and yours, Blaine says, "Come here" and then gives you a hug and you know what that means. And probably physiologically, as soon as he says, "Come here," and you know a hug's coming, you calm down.
Honey Parker: 20:41 Absolutely.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:41 Right?
Blaine Parker: 20:42 Another one we've got is. "Where's the bourbon?"
Honey Parker: 20:46 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 20:47 Wow what? I gave away our secrets?
Honey Parker: 20:49 Yeah, that's good.
Blaine Parker: 20:53 So let me ask you this because I'm thinking of some people who have drawn some interesting boundaries. Can having the right boundaries in the business help prevent this from happening?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 21:07 Yeah, it absolutely can. I mean, the thing is is that wherever there's friction points, if you find a way to either limit those or mitigate them, meaning reduce the number of friction points or you find someone else who can kind of take on the friction that's not your partner. So for example, a couple that maybe they both are very creative types and they have a really hard time holding deadlines. Well them trying to hold each other to deadlines isn't gonna work. It's not gonna work for the business. It's not gonna work for either of them because it's not their strong suit. But if they hire an office manager or a project manager or somebody in their office who kind of works with them both and says, "Oh, you have this due tomorrow and you need this next week and you need that." That would reduce a huge amount of friction in their relationship.
And you would consider it a boundary that we both agree to listen to this office manager or we both agree to follow whatever we tell her we're going to do. Or tell him we're going to do. So, definitely. I think even interpersonally having certain boundaries. If, again, like I said I think in another time, every relationship can only go as fast as the slowest person in it. And it can be the slowest person, like the last person to say I love you. It can be the slowest person, the person who thinks more before they act and takes longer to make decisions. It can also be the person who puts in more boundaries and says, "I know for my creativity I need an hour of quiet in the morning" or "I need to have an hour where I don't have to go through the tasks of the day" or "when I come home I need 15 minutes quietly." Something like that. And so that can help create some structure too that can be useful.
Blaine Parker: 22:48 I'm thinking of a boundary that might even be more dramatic than any of those because it's so big I think, relatively speaking. We interviewed Roy Williams and Pennie Williams, Wizard of Ads.
Honey Parker: 22:48 I knew that was coming.
Blaine Parker: 23:06 Well I think it a was really interesting boundary. And certainly we have talked to other couples who have done something like this, but not to the same degree, and certainly other couples for whom it just doesn't work. But they've been together, in business together, for, God, I think about 40 years. A long time. Ad agency that they built from nothing and he's always been the man out front and I had to be reminded that they are a CoupleCo because he is so much what you see and she really has helped keep it all together and keep moving. But they had a rule that they would never discuss business at home.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 23:45 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 23:46 Ever. I mean it was a hard and fast rule. If it turned out they had to discuss business and they were at home, guess what they did?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 23:53 They would leave?
Blaine Parker: 23:54 Got in the car and drive to neutral ground and then have the conversation about the business.
Honey Parker: 24:01 Yeah.
Blaine Parker: 24:02 Which I think is fascinating.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 24:03 It is. And if it works for them... I mean obviously it works for them, so I think that's fantastic. The part that would become difficult as if one person didn't have the level of commitment to that boundary as the other. I think if both people agree on a boundary, no matter how strict or however it seems to any of us, I think that always works. It works all the time, but where the difficulty becomes is that if one person wants the boundary or enacts the boundary and the other person doesn't.
Honey Parker: 24:34 Right.
Blaine Parker: 24:35 We know people, we've interviewed couples who... They're talking about business in bed at night and I'm thinking, yeah, that's not happening with us. We did not have to come up with an agreement.
Honey Parker: 24:45 You know, before we started working together, he taught me how to sail, which was a horrible idea. And I know that.
Blaine Parker: 24:51 Yeah, we haven't [crosstalk 00:24:52] after that.
Honey Parker: 24:52 But I remember he tried to give me one chalk talk in bed and I thought, no, this is not happening. He's like, "If the wind is from this direction and the..." But I'm like, "No."
Blaine Parker: 25:03 Well, let's... Could be a... flesh this picture out a little more.
Honey Parker: 25:03 Here comes the justification.
Blaine Parker: 25:08 No, I'm not justifying it, but we'd been up for hours. We were just hanging around. It was one of those mornings where you just, it takes forever to get out of bed. And we were talking about sailing and I said, "Well look here's a..." It wasn't like I planned this. I didn't bring a chalkboard into the bedroom and say, "Okay, here's what's going to happen."
Honey Parker: 25:25 Can't see me shaking my head. Shaking my head. No, I mean-
Blaine Parker: 25:28 And this, by the way, I want to say, sidebar. Never try to teach your significant other any skill in which you are well versed.
Honey Parker: 25:37 Yeah, don't do that.
Blaine Parker: 25:38 It is a bad plan.
Honey Parker: 25:38 It's a bad idea and I already knew it.
Blaine Parker: 25:40 That said, we know somebody who taught his wife how to ski and did it brilliantly, so go figure.
Honey Parker: 25:44 So yeah. Another couple who have a rule. We just interviewed Scott Palermo and Jim Sanak of Harcourts Desert Homes and they have a hundred-
Blaine Parker: 25:55 In Palm Springs, gorgeous Palm Springs.
Honey Parker: 25:57 They have a hundred dollar rule.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 25:59 And what it is?
Honey Parker: 25:59 They have time which is off limits to talk about work.
Blaine Parker: 26:03 Like if they're out having fun doing something that has nothing to do with work.
Honey Parker: 26:07 And they have created this boundary where if somebody breaks that wall and talks about work, they owe the other person $100.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 26:07 $100.
Blaine Parker: 26:17 And they're not trying to discourage creative thinking from happening. They want that to happen. They just don't want anyone to force the issue. Make a note, think about it later, but if you insist on talking about it, I am going to get a hundred dollar bill from you.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 26:34 Absolutely. And the thing about that is if you read the creativity literature, it actually says that the more limits or the parameters that you put on creativity, the more creativity there is. And it's interesting to me because I think so often, as entrepreneurs, we're always thinking about our businesses. And then there comes a point where you can't have that many good ideas in a 24 hour period. You know? Like after a while it becomes just churning over the same things or it becomes a way of anxiety that feels like a new idea, but it's really just anxiety.
Blaine Parker: 27:04 Churning over the same things. It's so creative.
Honey Parker: 27:07 The thing I love about any of these rules, whatever you come up with for yourselves, is it requires you to stop for a moment and say, "Our relationship is more important."
Dr. Rachna Jain: 27:18 Yes.
Honey Parker: 27:19 And I think that's a really strong thing.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 27:21 It absolutely is. And it's actually crucial. I mean, all of the episodes that you do and all of the conversations that we have and will have, it always starts from the premise that your relationship is important to you. And in fact, it's the most important thing to you first.
Blaine Parker: 27:37 I think... This has been really interesting because who knew answering the question: is your business together, why you're not having sex? Would be quite so not sexy.
Honey Parker: 27:52 No, it's super sexy. No, we're going to put some like chicka-chicka-bow-bow music on it.
Blaine Parker: 27:58 Yeah, I've got some guitar with a wah-wah pedal. You know, wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:02 But really what I'll just speak to that for one second, is that-
Blaine Parker: 28:06 What, the wah-wah pedal?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:07 Not the wah pedal, the fact that it wasn't that sexy to talk about. It's because the challenges that people have in their sex lives is not about sex. It's not about techniques or the newest way to do things or stamina or prowess or all the things that we've seen.
Blaine Parker: 28:23 Well, hold on. I mean, if I take the quiz at your website I'm not going to get a bunch of techniques?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:26 You won't get a bunch of techniques. No, you won't.
Blaine Parker: 28:26 Oh, okay.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:28 Because actually what the... I mean really, literally what the research shows is that the best sex that people have is when they feel connected to their partner and the way they feel connected, it's not a physical thing. It's an emotional, psychological, mental. It's more a sort of those intangibles than it's the sort of physical act of whatever. And so really all of anyone's sexual problems actually start outside the bedroom and then the bedroom becomes the symptom of whatever is happening on the outside of that.
Blaine Parker: 29:03 Well, okay, this is like a whole other conversation.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:05 Right. So I don't want to open up something more today, but that's really the thinking about-
Blaine Parker: 29:09 Yeah, but I think maybe we need to promise people we'll come back to this.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:10 To come back to that.
Honey Parker: 29:11 We'll come back to the bedroom.
Blaine Parker: 29:14 Yeah, back to the bedroom.
Honey Parker: 29:15 With Dr. Rachna Jain.
Blaine Parker: 29:16 With Dr. Rachna Jain, yeah.
Honey Parker: 29:17 It's your new show.
Blaine Parker: 29:20 You're going to be like the Dr. Ruth of the couple entrepreneur scene.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:24 Yes, there you go.
Blaine Parker: 29:25 Love it. So do we want to recap, Honey? You're good at this.
Honey Parker: 29:29 So basically when we're talking about why you've lost intimacy, the things that we've covered are about... You're letting work take up too much time and take too much importance from your relationship and it's as important to carve out time to just connect with the other person as it is to carve out time to meet this deadline.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:54 Absolutely. And that maybe having boundaries or rules to help kind of remind you of the relationship as a priority. You know, the a hundred dollar rule. Or looking at what helps you guys pivot. The cheese omelet and Anne Lamott case, or "come here" and a hug.
Honey Parker: 30:10 And if one of you is doing something that's kind of pushing the intimacy away, it's worth talking about.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:16 Absolutely.
Honey Parker: 30:16 And it's okay to talk about.
Blaine Parker: 30:18 But here's the thing, I know some people who would find that cheese omelet thing really sexy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:21 Yeah, exactly. It's so personal to-
Honey Parker: 30:24 I think it's pretty great.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:26 It's so individual. And then the last thing to realize is that if there are challenges that you're having in your sex life that it's not always the first place to look by increasing novelty or increasing variety or trying to do all those things. Lingerie or sex toys or anything that you might consider, those aren't gonna make up for a sense of disconnection or a feeling of not being understood and seen by your partner. So to just understand that if sex is dwindled or it's becoming a problem in your relationship, to kind of look outside the bedroom and begin to reconnect and create a greater sense of intimacy. And then basically you'll know what to do from there.
Blaine Parker: 31:13 Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com. If we send people to that website, they can take a free quiz, can't they?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:20 They certainly can.
Blaine Parker: 31:21 And it's going to be all about how your business may be why you're not having sex anymore. Isn't that with the quiz is about?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:30 The quiz is generally about that. It's actually about the elements of a happy relationship and it'll help you determine kind of where in your relationship things could be-
Blaine Parker: 31:36 Oh, am I having selective recall here?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:39 A little bit, but that's okay. It's late.
Blaine Parker: 31:39 Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Forgive me.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:40 No problem.
Blaine Parker: 31:42 Thanks. Thanks, Rachna.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:43 Absolutely. Thank you.
Honey Parker: 31:43 Thank you.
Blaine Parker: 31:46 This has been your business is the reason you're not having sex starring Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 31:51 Well, I think it's been your business may be the reason you're not having sex.
Blaine Parker: 31:55 Oh, sorry.
Honey Parker: 31:57 No, that's okay. I just don't want to blame it all on your business.
Blaine Parker: 31:59 All right, well either way you can find Dr. Jain online at, if you can believe it, inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 32:06 And if you've enjoyed this podcast and you're not afraid to tell your friends, you can go to iTunes and leave a star rating and a review and that will help people just like you find it.
Blaine Parker: 32:16 And join us next time as we bring you burgeoning media moguls.
Honey Parker: 32:21 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 32:21 Yeah.
Honey Parker: 32:22 That's exciting.
Blaine Parker: 32:23 Big time.
Honey Parker: 32:24 This is an unusual one. We met them at the Utah Podcasting Summit and they are a fantastic pair.
Blaine Parker: 32:30 Spencer and Jill Wright, of The Pod Mill in Salt Lake City, have a podcasting network. They produce podcasts for other people. They're launching a business that captures audio memories of families and groups of friends, none of which you expect from a pair who met each other because they were working in, you ready? Medicine.
Honey Parker: 32:48 Yeah. It's such an easy transition.
Blaine Parker: 32:51 From medicine to broadcast.
Honey Parker: 32:52 Well, perhaps podcasting was the medicine they needed.
Blaine Parker: 32:55 You never know. That's quite the little turn of phrase there.
Honey Parker: 32:59 Thank you.
Blaine Parker: 32:59 Yeah. Anyway, Spencer and Jill Wright of The Pod Mill in Salt Lake City next time here on CoupleCo. Working with your spouse for fun and profit.
Honey Parker: 33:07 Copyright 2019, all rights reserved.
Blaine Parker: 33:10 Love you, baby.
Honey Parker: 33:11 Love you too.
Blaine Parker: 33:12 CoupleCo out.
Honey Parker: 00:01 You're a giver.
Blaine Parker: 00:03 You know, you've said that before.
Honey Parker: 00:06 Well, maybe this time I mean it.
Blaine Parker: 00:09 If you keep that up, it's going to go to my head.
Honey Parker: 00:14 I don't know. I don't think it will.
Blaine Parker: 00:14 Why are you so sure of that?
Honey Parker: 00:17 That it won't go to your head?
Blaine Parker: 00:18 Yeah.
Honey Parker: 00:18 Because you're very New England-y. Those things don't go to your head.
Blaine Parker: 00:22 Well, they can go to my head in a very covert New England kind of way.
Honey Parker: 00:27 I don't know what that means.
Blaine Parker: 00:29 You're about to find out.
Welcome to CoupleCo: Working With Your Spouse For Fun And Profit. I'm Blaine Parker.
Honey Parker: 00:37 Which makes me Honey Parker.
Blaine Parker: 00:38 And, as a couple in business together, we are coming to you from the Couple Coach, our compact Transamerican land yacht.
Honey Parker: 00:44 We're navigating the nation in search of standout couples in business together.
Blaine Parker: 00:48 And we're bringing them to you so you can hear their inspiring stories of crushing it in business without crushing each other.
Honey Parker: 00:54 In this episode, she's back.
Blaine Parker: 00:56 She's back.
Honey Parker: 00:59 We love Dr. Rachna Jain. And her interviews are incredibly useful and very popular.
Blaine Parker: 01:05 And now, we are going to discuss a subject that is near and dear to the heart of every CoupleCo.
Honey Parker: 01:13 But not everyone wants to talk about it.
Blaine Parker: 01:15 And we're not talking about Smokin' Mary Smoked Bloody Mary Mix.
Honey Parker: 01:19 Wow, that transition was off of a negative.
Blaine Parker: 01:22 Is that a problem?
Honey Parker: 01:25 Well, no because it's Smokin' Mary.
Blaine Parker: 01:25 Smokin' Mary.
Honey Parker: 01:28 Nothing's a problem.
Blaine Parker: 01:29 No.
Honey Parker: 01:29 Because Smokin' Mary is a fantastic mixer made with only fresh, only whole tomatoes.
Blaine Parker: 01:37 They are so fresh, they belong in this episode. And there are no-
Honey Parker: 01:41 I know what's coming.
Blaine Parker: 01:42 ... no reconstituted tomato juice like the big brands.
Honey Parker: 01:45 And you can mix it with the distilled spirit of your choice for a fantastic tasting cocktail.
Blaine Parker: 01:51 Or you can mix it in fabulous alcohol free virgin cocktails.
Honey Parker: 01:55 And Smokin' Mary, as you may know, is a couple owned business, perhaps just like you.
Blaine Parker: 02:00 Yes, Smoking Laurie and Smoking Marc own Smokin' Mary. Smokin' Mary Smoked Bloody Mary Mix. Hey, nice tomatoes. Online at smokinmary.com.
Honey Parker: 02:10 Now CoupleCo is going to be sending out some very big news soon.
Blaine Parker: 02:14 That's right. If you want to get on our mailing list, go to coupleco.com.
Honey Parker: 02:18 That's coupleco.com.
Blaine Parker: 02:20 So this episode is the one that forever will be known as the sex talk.
Honey Parker: 02:26 Dun dun dun.
Blaine Parker: 02:26 Dun dun dun.
Honey Parker: 02:28 That old chestnut.
Blaine Parker: 02:29 Yes, that old chestnut. The sex talk. Who doesn't love a good sex talk? Dr. Rachna Jain is our favorite clinical psychologist, and her website is called inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 02:42 Guess what she talks about there?
Blaine Parker: 02:44 Accounting.
Honey Parker: 02:45 Perhaps, but no.
Blaine Parker: 02:48 Perhaps?
Honey Parker: 02:50 Maybe there's a part of the website I've missed where she discusses accounting, but she does propose that your business might be the reason you're not having sex anymore.
Blaine Parker: 02:58 And like many challenges involving the bedroom, it most likely starts outside the bedroom.
Honey Parker: 03:04 And what do you do about it?
Blaine Parker: 03:05 Could the answer be as simple as, ooh, I don't know, a cheese omelet?
Honey Parker: 03:09 That is really bizarre, and I think that, no, I don't think that's the answer.
Blaine Parker: 03:14 Yeah. But I don't know. Listen to this episode, you might be surprised.
Honey Parker: 03:16 Oh, that's right.
Blaine Parker: 03:17 This is CoupleCo where anything can happen. Here now, the possibility that your business is the reason you're not having sex starring Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com.
We are back in Westminster, Maryland.
Honey Parker: 03:32 Beautiful Westminster, Maryland.
Blaine Parker: 03:34 Beautiful Westminster, Maryland. It is gorgeous here. You wake up in the morning and the bird song is just out of control. It's a frenzy of tweets.
Honey Parker: 03:41 Rolling green lawns, there are horses about. We hear the cows mooing.
Blaine Parker: 03:46 Moo. There's some angry cows. And the twitter you're hearing there is not a bird, but that is the fabulous Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com, and profitablepopularity.com as well. We should mention that just because Dr. Jain was one of the first people ever to be selling stuff on the internet, and doing social media marketing, and telling the world how to get the rest of the world to buy your stuff, basically, is that about it?
Honey Parker: 04:15 Pay attention.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:16 Yeah. At least pay attention. Yeah. At least pay attention. Buy your stuff.
Blaine Parker: 04:16 Buy your stuff.
Honey Parker: 04:16 buymystuff.com.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:21 Exactly. That's great.
Blaine Parker: 04:22 Okay. So it's not necessarily about buying stuff, but about paying attention. But anyway, I think people are going to pay attention to this because for some reason with all the interviews we have done with Dr. Jain, who is our single most popular guest on this show-
Honey Parker: 04:36 Ever.
Blaine Parker: 04:36 ... possibly because she's the only one we have back repeatedly and she's smarter than the rest of us and she sounds amazing. We're going to talk about the age old question: is being in business together why you're not having sex?
Honey Parker: 04:50 Dun dun dun.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 04:55 Dun dun dun. All of our eyes got really big.
Blaine Parker: 04:58 And I think it's appropriate that we ask this question because this is actually one of the things that Dr Jane focuses on at her website inloveandbiz.com.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:07 Yes. And it is actually a huge, it's a huge concern.
Blaine Parker: 05:11 You know, here's what's going to happen. As soon as somebody hears this, they're just going to shut down the playback and rush to your website.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:11 Website.
Honey Parker: 05:16 See, I was going to say, she just said huge.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:21 I did, I did.
Blaine Parker: 05:21 Okay. This is going to be touchy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:23 Touchy.
Blaine Parker: 05:23 How many bad double entendres can we break up here? All right.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:30 Okay. So, yeah.
Blaine Parker: 05:31 Try to get serious.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:32 Starting to get serious.
Honey Parker: 05:33 So this is an actual problem.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 05:35 It is. It is a problem because, as we were talking about just a few minutes ago, just because you're together all the time, just because you have a business together, you live together, you work together, it does not mean that you're actually having true intimacy. And for many couples, especially in the early stages of business, they start off talking about, did you call that client back? Did you call that person back? Is that project going to be done on time? Did that paycheck come in? That check from the client come in? Did this come in? Did that come in? Are you picking up the dry cleaning? Are you getting food? Are you doing this? And so what gets lost in that sometimes is that intimate conversation. That sense of learning about the other person's internal world and it gets lost in sort of the daily-
Blaine Parker: 06:18 The internal world.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:21 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Blaine Parker: 06:21 Wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:23 We learned that in graduate school too.
Blaine Parker: 06:25 Wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:26 And so what gets lost is that sense of connection or intimacy to your partner's internal world and what starts to happen then is you start to feel more disconnected.
Blaine Parker: 06:36 By that way, that's not a euphemism for something else?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:38 No, it isn't.
Blaine Parker: 06:38 Okay, good.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:39 It isn't. It's like-
Blaine Parker: 06:39 I was worried for a moment.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 06:41 Yeah. And so you start to lose track of what's happening for them, how they're feeling, what they're thinking about, what they're dreaming for, dreaming and wanting.
And when that starts to happen then you become more disengaged and then when you become more disengaged, your sex life goes... it diminishes at minimum and it may go away completely.
Blaine Parker: 07:01 Off the rails.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:01 Or when you do have sex, it's not as satisfying as it used to be.
Honey Parker: 07:05 Because you're not as connected. It was interesting when you said that just because you're spending time together does not mean you are intimate. I mean it's not intimate time. It's a lot of time. It's high value time and it can almost masquerade as something else for awhile.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:05 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Honey Parker: 07:22 So you think that we're together, we're communicating, we talk all the time, but not about something important to your relationship outside of work.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 07:33 And sometimes not even something separate from the business. I have met some percentage of couples who are in business together and especially in the first years of the business or when there's a transition happening, growth, expansion, change of ideas or change of focus.
They don't talk about anything but work. And they talk about it first thing they wake up in the morning, they talk about it last thing they go to bed at night. Honey was laughing when I said something about having poor sleep hygiene, but people are answering emails at nighttime or they're looking on their phone or they're-
Blaine Parker: 07:33 That sounds awful.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 08:09 ... kind of reading things. And the thing is is that, it's one thing if one person does it in a couple. And that happens sometimes. Somebody just says, "I'm going to stay up late and answer a few emails." But when you both are sitting there doing that again and again, and it becomes... It's like night after night after night, it becomes very difficult then to put it away and kind of reconnect.
Honey Parker: 08:30 And the other person becomes furniture.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 08:32 Right.
Blaine Parker: 08:33 I just had this vision of two people sitting up in bed leaning against the pillows in the dark, bathed in the bluish glow from the screens of their smartphones.
Honey Parker: 08:42 And they might be... By anybody... It's interesting. When, and I had to stop myself from doing this because I definitely am one of those people who's... I've got the list in my head all the time. And so we would get up in the morning and we'd have a cup of coffee and we'd sit in front of our gorgeous view. And you had seen it, beautiful view of the mountains. You'd have a coffee and I would start right in and say, "How about this? Are we doing that? Who are you calling today?" And I had to give myself the rule to not do that and just have that lovely time together because that was just an awful way to kick start the day.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 09:23 And that's a really, really good example because you think of it that if you work in a job or you work in another business or you have your own business separate, you have some separation from that. You get up, you get ready, you spend time with your family, then you go to your home office or you go to your office, and then you leave it and then you come home.
But when your business is entwined, intertwined with your spouse, and you both are in the same space and you're always working together, you have to have really super capabilities to be able to put a distinctions or to put boundaries around the work. Especially if there's something very exciting happening or something very stressful. But it's so crucial to do because just even even a week of disconnection, five days of feeling disconnected, or seven days of feeling disconnected can have ramifications for how well each of you feel, your level of depression or anxiety, how well you sleep. I mean, it can have a lot of impact in such a seemingly short time.
Honey Parker: 10:28 Yeah. So here's my favorite question. You realize this has happened. You've kind of lost the intimacy in your relationship. What do you do?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 10:37 You do. Yeah.
Honey Parker: 10:37 Especially if one of you recognizes it and the other person isn't even thinking that's a problem.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 10:43 I think that whenever anyone realizes it, I think it's something that is brought up and discussed. So like in the example you gave, Honey, where you suddenly realized that you were kind of kicking off every day with, okay, let's jump in with both feet and let's get going. Or who's calling who and who's doing what. As soon as you realized it, you probably decided that you want to do something differently.
Blaine Parker: 11:05 Yeah. I got to say, I just need to jump in here because I really appreciate the fact, Honey, that you did that and you kept saying you didn't want to be the naggy wife. I could actually probably use more nagging. But Rachna, you were earlier talking about what sounded like nagging someone about getting stuff done. And I can see how that might shut things down, but I don't know that people understand just how important that is. And every time I hear Honey say she didn't want to be the naggy wife, or doesn't want to be the naggy wife., I'm thinking, well, I really appreciate that. Maybe we should hire somebody to nag me. No?
Honey Parker: 11:42 No.
Blaine Parker: 11:43 Anyway. Okay.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 11:45 She's perfectly capable taking it back over if you really need it.
Blaine Parker: 11:49 Why pay somebody to do that when I can do it?
Honey Parker: 11:51 No, I'm happy to pay somebody to that. That'd be good.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 11:55 But I think it sort of hints at, without you both saying it, but it sort of hints at who you want to be in the relationship and who you want to be to each other. You know? So, Honey, you decided that you didn't want to start off that way. And so it was something probably about how you see yourself. How you want to see yourself or how you do see yourself in the relationship. And then it was also trying to attend or take care of the relationship and say, "Okay, it needs to be different for us. Our relationship needs to be different." And Blaine, even though he may say he could use more nagging, and maybe he could, he's at least... He recognizes-
Blaine Parker: 12:29 Come on, you've met me.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 12:31 He recognizes the idea that you were saying our relationship deserves something better.
Honey Parker: 12:36 Yeah. And I think for me in that particular case, I saw him handling it differently. So I thought, okay, well this is actually possible because he's doing it.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 12:49 Mm-hmm (affirmative) And that's a great example too. That it goes back to something that we had talked about another time around, kind of leveraging each other's strengths. That many times couples are attracted to each other because one is more steady and while one is a little bit more active or high strung, you might say. Somebody is more stable and has maybe lower risk tolerance, while the other one is the go getter and is out there. It's very, very common for sort of that idea of somewhat opposites to attract. And so when that happens, you each can become a very good example for each other. That how, if the other person is doing it and they're not suffering any ill effects, maybe there's another way to try to be.
Honey Parker: 13:31 Yeah, he seemed to enjoy his coffee.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 13:33 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Blaine Parker: 13:34 I did.
Honey Parker: 13:34 So what if... Because that was something-
Blaine Parker: 13:37 I still do because you still don't nag me.
Honey Parker: 13:37 No. That was-
Blaine Parker: 13:38 Although, suddenly I just got this vision of hiring somebody in leather with a whip to nag me and it's like, that's just kind of twisted.
Honey Parker: 13:47 We're in a sex conversation.
Blaine Parker: 13:48 Well, exactly. That's why I went there. And it's just, it's an all... This is the problem of being a writer, is you think about things like this.
Honey Parker: 13:53 I hadn't thought about it.
Blaine Parker: 13:55 Well, you're not this writer.
Honey Parker: 13:57 True. So what if-
Blaine Parker: 14:01 I'm here for the guys in the room.
Honey Parker: 14:03 So it's one thing to recognize something in yourself because then you can really act on it. But what if you recognize something in the other person that they haven't recognized yet?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 14:13 So I think that's great. And that probably is likely to happen, even maybe more frequently. When that happens, I would ask a question and I would say, "Honey, what I noticed is that every morning, as soon as we get up and we hit the floor, hit the floor and get coffee, sit down, you basically start asking me what I'm going to do today, what's going on and who am I calling and what's happening. And I find that a little bit stressful. And I'm just curious what you're hoping I'll say or what you're trying to have happen from that."
And basically just give them a chance to tell you, you know, "Well, I'm afraid you're not gonna get this done and I feel worried about this and I feel stressed about money and I feel this and I feel that and I feel that." And then it becomes a chance for the partner to address their fear without addressing the specifics.
Honey Parker: 15:03 Does the person who asked the question get to say, "Well, this is how that's hitting me. This is how that's affecting me"?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 15:10 Yeah, definitely. I think so. Because I think if I basically open a conversation and I say, "Honey, I noticed this. What are you feeling that's driving this? Or what do you, what are you hoping I'll do?" It does give you a place to say, "Well, I feel stressed because we can't meet our mortgage or something and we need..." You know, whatever.
Blaine Parker: 15:28 Here's what I'm hearing now is, "Uh-oh, we have to have a conversation about it." And that... Going back to what was our last interview, which you may listen to, about fear. A lot of people are afraid of having that conversation. How the heck do you have it?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 15:44 Well I think that it's... And I know sometimes when I suggest things it feels maybe a little difficult because you have to have a certain amount of distance from the situation, you know? But, I really do think if you can adopt a position or a stance of curiosity, and really it's not about what's right or wrong, it's it's really about... I just really want to understand what's going on for you. And so, Honey, if you don't mind, let's play this out just for a minute. So if Blaine had asked you, "Honey, I noticed that you do this every morning. What's going on for you?" What would you have said?
Honey Parker: 16:22 It would have been stress. And I'm concerned that these things are going to fall through the cracks. And they're in my head and I feel like if I say them now, maybe I will save something from going south.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 16:31 Okay, great. So kind of a little bit of fear about things falling apart or something like that. So is there something that Blaine can do that would soothe you or calm you on a kind of a visceral level? Like not really at the level of words, but can he rub your back or can he do something, anything like that that would have soothed you at that point?
Honey Parker: 16:54 If he had said, "You know what? Let's have our coffee and in a half an hour or an hour we can have a meeting and run down the business stuff. But let's just have a time where we enjoy each other."
Dr. Rachna Jain: 17:07 Perfect. So, right. So then he also could have asked you. He could have said, "Okay, if we don't have this conversation now, what would make it, what would make it okay for us to defer it for a time being?"
And you could've come back and said, "Well, okay, maybe if we agree to have it in half hour." And then Blaine could have decided, "Yes, that's fine." Or Blaine could have asked for something else. But it's the issue of not saying you're wrong, not coming to you and saying, "Honey, you're wrong for doing this" or "Blaine, you're wrong for not speaking up and not trying to plan everything as soon as you wake up." But really just trying to say, "What is going on? What are you feeling? Or what are you needing?" And giving you a chance to say what you need. And then giving Blaine a chance to say, "Okay, I can do that" or "I can't do that."
Honey Parker: 17:07 Right.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 17:51 And then sometimes if you even just articulate that, "I feel stressed, I feel worried that something's gonna fall apart." For some couples there's just something that the other partner can do. They can come rub their back, they can give them a hug, they can hold their hand, they can do something physically that comforts them. And that can make all the anxiety go away too. So in your own relationship, for all the people listening, you probably have those little things where it's like the small hinge that opens the door. It's like it pivots everything. And so you can just, you can adopt a pivot. You can rub a person's back and say, "Okay, I totally get it. You're totally stressed out. You want to get going. I love that. But let's just take 30 minutes and be together and then we'll come back to it."
Honey Parker: 18:32 Yeah. I mean, this is not TMI, but for us typically if I'm going to that place Blaine will say, "Come here." Say it like that. "Come here." You know?
Blaine Parker: 18:43 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Pretty much that's how it sounds.
Honey Parker: 18:43 And it's just a hug.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 18:45 A hug, yup.
Honey Parker: 18:45 You know? And I can feel myself letting things go.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 18:50 Absolutely. And it's so... I just wanted to share a quick story about that. There's so much individuality in that, but yet if you ask any couple, they know what those things are. I was reading an article about Anne Lamott, the writer. She just got married and she's 65-
Blaine Parker: 19:04 Yes, she did.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 19:05 ... and she just got married.
Blaine Parker: 19:06 Bird by Bird is probably her most famous book.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 19:08 Yes. And she writes about writing as well as other kinds of stuff. And I was reading just a newspaper article about her meeting her spouse and how they met and they get along and it was her first marriage and she's 65. So she basically, her kind of point was that don't give up hope.
What was really touching for me was when I read the story, the article, he was quoted, her husband was quoted as saying that she's very passionate, she's very kind of... It came across as a little bit high strung, a little bit... She cares deeply and can be anxious and stressed and he's a little bit more laid back and a little bit calmer and that she always feels like what's going to go wrong? And he goes into every situation like nothing will go wrong, this will be just fine. So what she said was that one of the things she loves best about him is when she starts to get what I call squinchy. Like all tight and-
Blaine Parker: 19:08 Squinchy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:02 ... squinched up and really wound-
Blaine Parker: 20:03 I think we all know that feeling.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:04 ... wound really tight. He makes her a cheese omelet.
Blaine Parker: 20:04 What?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:04 Yeah.
Blaine Parker: 20:06 A cheese omelet?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:09 Yeah. So he knows right away that he should make her a cheese omelet. And while he does it, he apparently talks to her soothingly. And if you're listening, I hope I have the story right. But he talks to her soothingly and he gives her a cheese omelet and that's their pivot. That's an example of a pivot.
Blaine Parker: 20:09 That's really funny.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:27 But it's so unique. But in their relationship, they have this cheese omelet thing and yours, Blaine says, "Come here" and then gives you a hug and you know what that means. And probably physiologically, as soon as he says, "Come here," and you know a hug's coming, you calm down.
Honey Parker: 20:41 Absolutely.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 20:41 Right?
Blaine Parker: 20:42 Another one we've got is. "Where's the bourbon?"
Honey Parker: 20:46 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 20:47 Wow what? I gave away our secrets?
Honey Parker: 20:49 Yeah, that's good.
Blaine Parker: 20:53 So let me ask you this because I'm thinking of some people who have drawn some interesting boundaries. Can having the right boundaries in the business help prevent this from happening?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 21:07 Yeah, it absolutely can. I mean, the thing is is that wherever there's friction points, if you find a way to either limit those or mitigate them, meaning reduce the number of friction points or you find someone else who can kind of take on the friction that's not your partner. So for example, a couple that maybe they both are very creative types and they have a really hard time holding deadlines. Well them trying to hold each other to deadlines isn't gonna work. It's not gonna work for the business. It's not gonna work for either of them because it's not their strong suit. But if they hire an office manager or a project manager or somebody in their office who kind of works with them both and says, "Oh, you have this due tomorrow and you need this next week and you need that." That would reduce a huge amount of friction in their relationship.
And you would consider it a boundary that we both agree to listen to this office manager or we both agree to follow whatever we tell her we're going to do. Or tell him we're going to do. So, definitely. I think even interpersonally having certain boundaries. If, again, like I said I think in another time, every relationship can only go as fast as the slowest person in it. And it can be the slowest person, like the last person to say I love you. It can be the slowest person, the person who thinks more before they act and takes longer to make decisions. It can also be the person who puts in more boundaries and says, "I know for my creativity I need an hour of quiet in the morning" or "I need to have an hour where I don't have to go through the tasks of the day" or "when I come home I need 15 minutes quietly." Something like that. And so that can help create some structure too that can be useful.
Blaine Parker: 22:48 I'm thinking of a boundary that might even be more dramatic than any of those because it's so big I think, relatively speaking. We interviewed Roy Williams and Pennie Williams, Wizard of Ads.
Honey Parker: 22:48 I knew that was coming.
Blaine Parker: 23:06 Well I think it a was really interesting boundary. And certainly we have talked to other couples who have done something like this, but not to the same degree, and certainly other couples for whom it just doesn't work. But they've been together, in business together, for, God, I think about 40 years. A long time. Ad agency that they built from nothing and he's always been the man out front and I had to be reminded that they are a CoupleCo because he is so much what you see and she really has helped keep it all together and keep moving. But they had a rule that they would never discuss business at home.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 23:45 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 23:46 Ever. I mean it was a hard and fast rule. If it turned out they had to discuss business and they were at home, guess what they did?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 23:53 They would leave?
Blaine Parker: 23:54 Got in the car and drive to neutral ground and then have the conversation about the business.
Honey Parker: 24:01 Yeah.
Blaine Parker: 24:02 Which I think is fascinating.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 24:03 It is. And if it works for them... I mean obviously it works for them, so I think that's fantastic. The part that would become difficult as if one person didn't have the level of commitment to that boundary as the other. I think if both people agree on a boundary, no matter how strict or however it seems to any of us, I think that always works. It works all the time, but where the difficulty becomes is that if one person wants the boundary or enacts the boundary and the other person doesn't.
Honey Parker: 24:34 Right.
Blaine Parker: 24:35 We know people, we've interviewed couples who... They're talking about business in bed at night and I'm thinking, yeah, that's not happening with us. We did not have to come up with an agreement.
Honey Parker: 24:45 You know, before we started working together, he taught me how to sail, which was a horrible idea. And I know that.
Blaine Parker: 24:51 Yeah, we haven't [crosstalk 00:24:52] after that.
Honey Parker: 24:52 But I remember he tried to give me one chalk talk in bed and I thought, no, this is not happening. He's like, "If the wind is from this direction and the..." But I'm like, "No."
Blaine Parker: 25:03 Well, let's... Could be a... flesh this picture out a little more.
Honey Parker: 25:03 Here comes the justification.
Blaine Parker: 25:08 No, I'm not justifying it, but we'd been up for hours. We were just hanging around. It was one of those mornings where you just, it takes forever to get out of bed. And we were talking about sailing and I said, "Well look here's a..." It wasn't like I planned this. I didn't bring a chalkboard into the bedroom and say, "Okay, here's what's going to happen."
Honey Parker: 25:25 Can't see me shaking my head. Shaking my head. No, I mean-
Blaine Parker: 25:28 And this, by the way, I want to say, sidebar. Never try to teach your significant other any skill in which you are well versed.
Honey Parker: 25:37 Yeah, don't do that.
Blaine Parker: 25:38 It is a bad plan.
Honey Parker: 25:38 It's a bad idea and I already knew it.
Blaine Parker: 25:40 That said, we know somebody who taught his wife how to ski and did it brilliantly, so go figure.
Honey Parker: 25:44 So yeah. Another couple who have a rule. We just interviewed Scott Palermo and Jim Sanak of Harcourts Desert Homes and they have a hundred-
Blaine Parker: 25:55 In Palm Springs, gorgeous Palm Springs.
Honey Parker: 25:57 They have a hundred dollar rule.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 25:59 And what it is?
Honey Parker: 25:59 They have time which is off limits to talk about work.
Blaine Parker: 26:03 Like if they're out having fun doing something that has nothing to do with work.
Honey Parker: 26:07 And they have created this boundary where if somebody breaks that wall and talks about work, they owe the other person $100.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 26:07 $100.
Blaine Parker: 26:17 And they're not trying to discourage creative thinking from happening. They want that to happen. They just don't want anyone to force the issue. Make a note, think about it later, but if you insist on talking about it, I am going to get a hundred dollar bill from you.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 26:34 Absolutely. And the thing about that is if you read the creativity literature, it actually says that the more limits or the parameters that you put on creativity, the more creativity there is. And it's interesting to me because I think so often, as entrepreneurs, we're always thinking about our businesses. And then there comes a point where you can't have that many good ideas in a 24 hour period. You know? Like after a while it becomes just churning over the same things or it becomes a way of anxiety that feels like a new idea, but it's really just anxiety.
Blaine Parker: 27:04 Churning over the same things. It's so creative.
Honey Parker: 27:07 The thing I love about any of these rules, whatever you come up with for yourselves, is it requires you to stop for a moment and say, "Our relationship is more important."
Dr. Rachna Jain: 27:18 Yes.
Honey Parker: 27:19 And I think that's a really strong thing.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 27:21 It absolutely is. And it's actually crucial. I mean, all of the episodes that you do and all of the conversations that we have and will have, it always starts from the premise that your relationship is important to you. And in fact, it's the most important thing to you first.
Blaine Parker: 27:37 I think... This has been really interesting because who knew answering the question: is your business together, why you're not having sex? Would be quite so not sexy.
Honey Parker: 27:52 No, it's super sexy. No, we're going to put some like chicka-chicka-bow-bow music on it.
Blaine Parker: 27:58 Yeah, I've got some guitar with a wah-wah pedal. You know, wow.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:02 But really what I'll just speak to that for one second, is that-
Blaine Parker: 28:06 What, the wah-wah pedal?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:07 Not the wah pedal, the fact that it wasn't that sexy to talk about. It's because the challenges that people have in their sex lives is not about sex. It's not about techniques or the newest way to do things or stamina or prowess or all the things that we've seen.
Blaine Parker: 28:23 Well, hold on. I mean, if I take the quiz at your website I'm not going to get a bunch of techniques?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:26 You won't get a bunch of techniques. No, you won't.
Blaine Parker: 28:26 Oh, okay.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 28:28 Because actually what the... I mean really, literally what the research shows is that the best sex that people have is when they feel connected to their partner and the way they feel connected, it's not a physical thing. It's an emotional, psychological, mental. It's more a sort of those intangibles than it's the sort of physical act of whatever. And so really all of anyone's sexual problems actually start outside the bedroom and then the bedroom becomes the symptom of whatever is happening on the outside of that.
Blaine Parker: 29:03 Well, okay, this is like a whole other conversation.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:05 Right. So I don't want to open up something more today, but that's really the thinking about-
Blaine Parker: 29:09 Yeah, but I think maybe we need to promise people we'll come back to this.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:10 To come back to that.
Honey Parker: 29:11 We'll come back to the bedroom.
Blaine Parker: 29:14 Yeah, back to the bedroom.
Honey Parker: 29:15 With Dr. Rachna Jain.
Blaine Parker: 29:16 With Dr. Rachna Jain, yeah.
Honey Parker: 29:17 It's your new show.
Blaine Parker: 29:20 You're going to be like the Dr. Ruth of the couple entrepreneur scene.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:24 Yes, there you go.
Blaine Parker: 29:25 Love it. So do we want to recap, Honey? You're good at this.
Honey Parker: 29:29 So basically when we're talking about why you've lost intimacy, the things that we've covered are about... You're letting work take up too much time and take too much importance from your relationship and it's as important to carve out time to just connect with the other person as it is to carve out time to meet this deadline.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 29:54 Absolutely. And that maybe having boundaries or rules to help kind of remind you of the relationship as a priority. You know, the a hundred dollar rule. Or looking at what helps you guys pivot. The cheese omelet and Anne Lamott case, or "come here" and a hug.
Honey Parker: 30:10 And if one of you is doing something that's kind of pushing the intimacy away, it's worth talking about.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:16 Absolutely.
Honey Parker: 30:16 And it's okay to talk about.
Blaine Parker: 30:18 But here's the thing, I know some people who would find that cheese omelet thing really sexy.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:21 Yeah, exactly. It's so personal to-
Honey Parker: 30:24 I think it's pretty great.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 30:26 It's so individual. And then the last thing to realize is that if there are challenges that you're having in your sex life that it's not always the first place to look by increasing novelty or increasing variety or trying to do all those things. Lingerie or sex toys or anything that you might consider, those aren't gonna make up for a sense of disconnection or a feeling of not being understood and seen by your partner. So to just understand that if sex is dwindled or it's becoming a problem in your relationship, to kind of look outside the bedroom and begin to reconnect and create a greater sense of intimacy. And then basically you'll know what to do from there.
Blaine Parker: 31:13 Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com. If we send people to that website, they can take a free quiz, can't they?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:20 They certainly can.
Blaine Parker: 31:21 And it's going to be all about how your business may be why you're not having sex anymore. Isn't that with the quiz is about?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:30 The quiz is generally about that. It's actually about the elements of a happy relationship and it'll help you determine kind of where in your relationship things could be-
Blaine Parker: 31:36 Oh, am I having selective recall here?
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:39 A little bit, but that's okay. It's late.
Blaine Parker: 31:39 Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Forgive me.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:40 No problem.
Blaine Parker: 31:42 Thanks. Thanks, Rachna.
Dr. Rachna Jain: 31:43 Absolutely. Thank you.
Honey Parker: 31:43 Thank you.
Blaine Parker: 31:46 This has been your business is the reason you're not having sex starring Dr. Rachna Jain of inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 31:51 Well, I think it's been your business may be the reason you're not having sex.
Blaine Parker: 31:55 Oh, sorry.
Honey Parker: 31:57 No, that's okay. I just don't want to blame it all on your business.
Blaine Parker: 31:59 All right, well either way you can find Dr. Jain online at, if you can believe it, inloveandbiz.com.
Honey Parker: 32:06 And if you've enjoyed this podcast and you're not afraid to tell your friends, you can go to iTunes and leave a star rating and a review and that will help people just like you find it.
Blaine Parker: 32:16 And join us next time as we bring you burgeoning media moguls.
Honey Parker: 32:21 Wow.
Blaine Parker: 32:21 Yeah.
Honey Parker: 32:22 That's exciting.
Blaine Parker: 32:23 Big time.
Honey Parker: 32:24 This is an unusual one. We met them at the Utah Podcasting Summit and they are a fantastic pair.
Blaine Parker: 32:30 Spencer and Jill Wright, of The Pod Mill in Salt Lake City, have a podcasting network. They produce podcasts for other people. They're launching a business that captures audio memories of families and groups of friends, none of which you expect from a pair who met each other because they were working in, you ready? Medicine.
Honey Parker: 32:48 Yeah. It's such an easy transition.
Blaine Parker: 32:51 From medicine to broadcast.
Honey Parker: 32:52 Well, perhaps podcasting was the medicine they needed.
Blaine Parker: 32:55 You never know. That's quite the little turn of phrase there.
Honey Parker: 32:59 Thank you.
Blaine Parker: 32:59 Yeah. Anyway, Spencer and Jill Wright of The Pod Mill in Salt Lake City next time here on CoupleCo. Working with your spouse for fun and profit.
Honey Parker: 33:07 Copyright 2019, all rights reserved.
Blaine Parker: 33:10 Love you, baby.
Honey Parker: 33:11 Love you too.
Blaine Parker: 33:12 CoupleCo out.